REGULAR BEAN EATER /// Dr. Joel Fuhrman

REGULAR BEAN EATER /// Dr. Joel Fuhrman

When you eat beans, see, cause all carbohydrates can be scored on a hierarchal scale of quality, and one of the things we
use to score the quality, besides the fiber content and the nutrient content,
the micronutrients, is the amount of resistant
starch in the food. – [Peter] Um-hmm. And beans are the richest
source of resistant starch, which means that a portion
of the carbohydrates are not able to be enzymatically degraded. And because of that, they
can’t be utilized as calories. They’re instead fermented
by bacteria in the gut. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Now, the more you eat these beans on a regular basis, you build up the bacteria
to digest them better and you stop producing gas from them. – [Peter] Ah, there you go. (laughs) – [Joel] Now, when
you’re eating the greens, and beans, and mushrooms, and you’re eating all
these foods in your diet, the bacterial biofilm
becomes more adherent to the villi in the small intestines. See, the small intestines
is like a hose, right, that’s like a curly hose goin’ all around. And the lumen, or the center of the hose, has like a peach fuzz, like a felt, on the interior wall, the lining. The villi are like
finger-like projections– – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] increasing the surface
area by more than tenfold. And stuck onto those villi, that surface, are this adherent bacteria biofilm that builds up because
you’re a regular bean-eater. Green vegetables, beans, and mushroom, and onions, raw onion. And you build up this adherent biofilm, that this adherent biofilm
lowers the glucose, the rate at which glucose
passes through the villi now. So when you eat a mango or some oatmeal, the glycemic load of
that oatmeal is lower, and the mango is lower,
there’s not as much glucose. It takes longer to get the
glucose into your bloodstream. So your instant response isn’t as high. So it’s protective against diabetes and makes you live longer. – [Peter] And weight gain, I’m assuming. – [Joel] And protective
against weight gain. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] Now, this is much more effective than taking probiotics, or taking yogurt, or taking sauerkraut, or fermented foods, because those bacteria pass through you. Whereas, when you build
up the healthy bacteria by eating right, the biofilm, and the favorable
microbiome, is more adherent. That means it lives
there, it remains there. It takes up more
permanent residence there. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] And scientists call
that the second meal effect. What that means is not only the
meal when you eat the beans, but the meals when
you’re not eating beans, you’re getting the
benefit from eating beans. So that you’re getting benefit from eating the beans in subsequent meals. And they call it the second meal effect, but it’s really the
third, fourth, fifth meal. It means any meal you eat, if you’re a regular eater of beans, you’re gonna have benefits as
far as nutrient production, as far as lowering the glycemic effect. – [Peter] Because of your intestines. – [Joel] Because of the
intestine microbiome from becoming a regular bean eater. (laughter) – [Peter] That’s interesting. I was gonna ask you about
probiotics and enzymes. I take, I forget what it’s
called, Digest Gold or something. It has probiotics and enzymes in it. But you’re saying– – [Joel] I’m saying you
don’t need that stuff. – [Peter] Diet is the best way to go. – [Joel] When you eat right,
you don’t need that stuff. – [Peter] Right, what about fiber, right? I love taking psyllium
husk or something at night. It helps, it just makes everything easier. I’m a big (laughs) proponent of that. – [Joel] You know, broccoli
has an incredible nutrient called indole-3-carbinol in it. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] But there’s a thousand
other nutrients in it, too. The most active ingredient
in broccoli is the broccoli. – [Peter] (laughs) What do
you mean, it’s the fiber? – [Joel] No, it’s everything
that’s in the broccoli. – [Peter] Just the whole thing. – [Joel] It’s the whole thing. So, when you’re taking the fiber, you’re taking this, you’re taking that. I’m saying the Americans who are eating 10 grams of fiber a day,
you eat a healthy diet, you’re getting 50, 60
grams of fiber a day. – Right.
– You’re getting tons of fiber. Why would you take more fiber? If you’re eating the right foods, your diet has all the fiber you need. If you’re eating the right foods, you’re helping all the microbiome we don’t need digested enzymes if you’re eating the right food anyway. (laughing) – [Peter] People are gonna have to listen to this podcast on half speed. (laughing) Some people speed ’em up
cause the guests are too slow. – [Joel] Am I talking fast? – [Peter] No, I love it. (laughing) This is exciting (laughing). – [Joel] Talking about G-BOMBS here. G-BOMBS, G-B-O-M-B-S. – [Peter] Let me see if I can do it. Greens – [Joel] Greens. – [Peter] Beans, onions,
mushrooms, berries. – [Joel] And seeds. – [Peter] Seeds! – [Joel] You left off seeds. – [Peter] Shit! I got
flaxseeds right there man. That’s because of you. I started putting flaxseeds in my smoothie and now I’m worried that
smoothies are bad (laughs). Are smoothies good? – [Joel] Yeah, sure. (laughter)
And how could you word it? And you know, how could a
person not eat flaxseeds? – [Peter] Tell me about flaxseeds. – [Joel] How could
anybody not eat flaxseeds? – [Peter] See, this is
the jukebox portion. Let’s just talk about flaxseeds. – [Joel] Like a recent study is, they followed women who had
breast cancer for 10 years. Those who had a third
of a milligram of lignin in the diet and flaxseeds are the highest lignin containing food– – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] had a 71% reduction in dying of breast cancer over the 10 year period. Now, we’ll keep in mind here, that when you eat a food
to protect against cancer, the effects go down as
your cancer advances. As you age older, it’s more effects when you’re younger before
you have the cancer. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] It still reduced
breast cancer risk of death for 71% even
when they had cancer. – [Peter] Is that right? – [Joel] So that means that the effect would have been much more
powerful had they just taken it. And they only had a third
of a milligram of lignin. A tablespoon of flaxseed has
21 milligrams of lignins in it. (laughter) 21 milligrams. And it lowers blood pressure more than blood pressure medications do. And it lowers cholesterol. And it has an effects beneficial that affects brain function and mood, and those we’re talking here about flaxseeds, chia seeds, sesame seeds. That’s why the S in G-BOMBS. Each food individually
in the G-BOMBS list, the greens, the beans, lower cancer rates by tremendous amount. But if we put together
a diet with a portfolio of all these foods that have
powerful anti-cancer effects, longevity promoting effects,
that’s where the magic happens. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] Right, it’s
frustrating for me because people don’t know that
the greatest tasting foods can be super healthy. And I can make, that’s
what I do for a living is make healthy foods taste great. What are you kidding me? Healthy version tastes better than that junk food version you’re
eating is gonna kill ya. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Whatever, right? – [Peter] But I did hear you talking about pizza specifically. And you’re like, it’s cake! This is cake. We eat cake for breakfast. We eat cake for dinner. – [Joel] The American diet, the cake diet. – [Peter] We eat cake. – [Joel] Yeah, exactly. – [Peter] And it makes
sense, it’s white flour– – [Joel] Pancakes, it’s
cake with, that’s the worst. – [Peter] Yes! – [Joel] Fried cake for breakfast. – [Peter] Fried cake! – [Joel] And then for
lunch, what do they have? Pizza, that’s cake with cheese on top. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] And then for
dinner they have a quiche or some other cake and then it’s pasta is cake. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] It’s still white flour again. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] White flour
destroys your brain cells. It makes you less intelligent. Takes away your, it makes you demented– – [Peter] That’s actually– – [Joel] it’s addictive. – [Peter] I’ve heard you
say that when people think they’re hungry, I’ve said
on this podcast many times when people think they’re craving meat, they’re really craving fat. That’s something that David Wolfe said to me I thought was interesting. Cause sometimes when
I stopped eating meat, I would eat an avocado and I was like, oh, I just needed something kind of heavier, if that makes sense. – [Joel] Hmm. – [Peter] You’re shaking your head? – [Joel] Not really. – [Peter] Not really? See though? I want it, you tell me what you think because you have an interesting idea on what people think hunger is. And you think it’s
actually something else. – [Joel] Yeah, absolutely. I’ve tested and done studies to show that as people increase
their nutritional quality of their diet, we’re talking
about micronutrients here. Vitamins, minerals,
phytochemicals, antioxidants do not contain calories. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] The American diet
is ubiquitously deficient in micronutrients. – [Peter] These are micro? Macronutrients are
carbohydrates, protein and fat. – [Joel] Right. – [Peter] And they have calories? – [Joel] And calories, right. – [Peter] And micro are
like taking a multi-vitamin doesn’t have any calories
because it’s just a vitamin. – [Joel] Right, it’s
just the micronutrients without the calories. And so each strawberry has
700 micronutrients in it. Phytochemicals and micronutrients. Each piece of broccoli has 1,000. – [Peter] Wow. – [Joel] So you can’t
get the micronutrients in the inside of a vitamin pill bottle. We need the full spectrum of these phytochemicals that
really prevent cancer. – [Peter] Okay. – [Joel] And I’m saying that as our diet is low in antioxidants and phytochemicals. Now as we eat foods like
pasta and bread and salad. Salad oils and meats. The animal products and
the chicken and the bagel doesn’t have any micronutrients, antioxidants, phytochemicals. No significant micronutrient load, just a source of calories. And as you build up these calories without enough micronutrients, you
also build up free radicals, and other toxins like lipofuscin and advanced glycation end products and other aldehydes and acids. – [Peter] This is what Joe
in Fat, Sick & Nearly Dead. He had a lot of free radicals, which turned into a skin disorder. – [Joel] Well, it’s the way he, that’s how he explained it in a movie. – [Peter] See, I forget
I’m talking to a doctor. If you weren’t a doctor, I
would get away with that. (laughter) You’d be like, that’s right Peter. Way to pay attention
during that cartoon part of a documentary. (laughing) Yeah, I’ve been to
medical school (laughing). No, this is exciting. You keep me honest, that’s good. But free radicals are bad. Free radicals lead to disease. – [Joel] And they’re an example of toxins. And when you cook oil at high temperature, you produce a lot of
free radicals, rancidity. So when we’re talking
here about free radicals are produced in the body. – [Peter] Uh-huh. – [Joel] And other
toxins that are produced along with free radicals in the body and most Americans are highly toxic. The body does enhances its repair. Removes toxins, free radicals, and toxic waste products best when we’re not eating food. In the non-feeding state. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] So we, look, when
you’re smoking cigarettes, right? You feel this drive to
smoke a cigarette again because you stay away
from cigarettes too long and you start to feel uncomfortable. But if you smoke a cigarette, you’re gonna feel better again. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] You’re drinking a cup of coffee. You may get a coffee
headache when you stop, but if you want to feel better again, just drink another cup of coffee. When you’re eating an unhealthy diet, you’re gonna feel ill when you stop eating the food and your digestion after about three or four hours when
your stomach empties, your body goes into a heightened stage of self cleansing and the self cleansing is a form of detoxification
when you feel ill. The ill feeling is
right directed activity. It’s repair going on. It just feels too uncomfortable. People mistake that
shakiness, that headachy, that anxiety, that fatigue, the cramping, the stomach cramping and fluttering. They think that’s hunger. And it’s just withdrawal
from their unhealthy diet. – [Peter] So, people
aren’t feeling hungry, they’re feeling withdrawal? – [Joel] They’re feeling withdrawals. – [Peter] See, that I think is a– – [Joel] And they feel
better when they eat again. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Now, if they were eating healthy, they wouldn’t feel those
symptoms of withdrawal. They would feel true hunger. And they’d feel nothing
until they were really hungry and if there was a biological
need for calories again. So people are eating when
there’s no biological need for calories in response
to their toxic hunger, the withdrawal from their unhealthy diet. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Then people have
to become overweight. There’s no such thing as
a normal weight person because they have no
connection between their instinctual drive for hunger. Their instinctual drive for calories. – [Peter] It’s more like a drug addict. – [Joel] It’s a drug addict. And to feel okay, they
have to overeat calories. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] They must over
consume the calories. More calories than they need in order to just to feel okay. – [Peter] I just have such a vivid memory of playing basketball as a kid and getting a direct order from my
brain to be like go eat ice cream, right now. Like, I just got– – [Joel] Right. – [Peter] I probably extended myself, got a little sweat going
and then I ran over to the ice cream truck and tried to find the most substantial thing they had, which was the ice cream
sandwich with the two cookies. And I ate it and then I felt,
the baby got his bottle again. – [Joel] Right. – [Peter] You’re saying
in a situation like that, I thought I was like, oh,
I’ve been exercising and– – [Joel] No, you’re an addict. – [Peter] Yeah, I was an addict. – [Joel] Right, right. – [Peter] See? And we didn’t know. – [Joel] Once you eat a
diet with a high quality of nutrients in it and enough fiber, it shuts off the apastat,
you feel nothing– – [Peter] Apastat
(laughing), I just love it! – [Joel] You feel nothing
when you don’t eat food. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] And the hours go on. You don’t feel anything until the point when your glycogen reserves
are becoming exhausted. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] Now, then if
you continue not to eat, cause your body needs glycogen, the brain can only run on glucose. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] So if your glycogen
reserves are exhausted. The brain cannot run on fat. It has to break down muscle
tissue to make glucose. We can make glucose from
muscle tissue, not from fat. The body is too self
preserving and smart for that. It doesn’t burn off
muscle tissue needlessly. So it tells you to eat
again, to get more calories before it will start to
eat up your muscle tissue. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] That’s called true hunger. – [Peter] Hm. – [Joel] That keeps you at a stable weight for the rest of, all the time. It keeps you at that perfect weight. – [Peter] So you feel like
you have a really clean connection between your brain and a part, it’s all in your brain, but– – [Joel] It tells you exactly– – [Peter] it tells you the
things it wants you to eat. – [Joel] That’s right. It tells you the correct
amount to eat each day so you maintain your
healthiest, most favorite weight for the rest of your life. – [Peter] We’re all getting like AM radio that’s like I think
I’m like (static sound) you should maybe eat
some fries or something and you’re just like,
something in you goes, hey, Joel, eat a radish. (laughter) Right? – [Joel] Well, it doesn’t
tell you what to eat– – Right.
– but just (mumble) your hunger, hunger is a throat sensation, (mumble) in your neck and throat. – [Peter] See, I’ve heard you say that. So you’re not feeling it
where we think we feel it. – [Joel] You don’t feel fatigue either. Fatigue is not hunger. That’s cause you’re not on a healthy diet. You shouldn’t feel fatigue. People eat to keep their energy up. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] That’s not, they
don’t need to eat food to keep your energy up. – [Peter] Well absolutely. We’re five hour energy and then we’re sleeping pills at night. We’re this close to an on/off switch. We just want to feel how we want to feel when we want to feel it. But you’re saying you can
be far more stabilized. With all this negative stuff– – [Joel] I’m saying you
never have to be on a diet. You eat what you feel like eating. Your taste is enhanced
when you really hunger. And you don’t want to,
you said to me, hey Joel, walk in the apartment, you
want this bowl of soup, you want something to eat? Nah, it looks like a nice big bowl of soup but I’d rather eat it
later when I’m hungry when I’m gonna enjoy it more. Cause hunger gives you enhanced
taste at the same time. You don’t feel like eating
when you’re not hungry. – [Peter] It really feels
like a type of abuse. As somebody who grew up– – [Joel] Yeah it’s, yes. – [Peter] the biggest kid in my class and all that stuff, I was like, I wish I had known, and I’m very excited that there’s the internet and there are these documentaries and
there are podcasts like this. And now, what I’m saying is the good news is you found, this sounds like an
infomercial, (laughing), but you have found with
science, in my opinion, a very reasonable way around it, which doesn’t involve deprivation
or anything like that. You’re not shaking. It’s about giving yourself everything that you need so you feel great as opposed to the traditional model of a diet. – [Joel] Yeah, and most
people found Nutritarian diet, they eat what they want to eat, they just want the right stuff now. They enjoy it more. Your taste buds get stronger. You like, and you learn the recipes. And it’s actually a myth to think that a person eating an unhealthy diet is enjoying their diet, their life, or their diet or their food more than a person eating a healthy diet. That’s just not true. G-BOMBS Your healthy life expectancy, H equals N over C,
nutrients over calories. In other words, you can
predict your life span by your micronutrient density
of your diet per calorie. – [Peter] So it’s not about calories, it’s about how, you said
don’t count calories, make your calories count. Look, I’ll do this for you. (laughter) I’m hip to the people need
to relax about protein game, but I feel like we could
talk about that a little bit. You’re actually a little bit concerned, maybe not concerned, informed that maybe– – [Joel] Yeah, that’s a better word. – [Peter] Yeah, you’re
informed that people are eating too much protein. – [Joel] Well, animal
protein in particular has effect to raise insulin-like
growth factor one, IGF1. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] In other words that the American population is poisoned by their excessive consumption
of animal protein. – [Peter] Mm. – [Joel] And the reason we give credence to these studies and how
do we know who to believe? Some guy comes on a
podcast or on a television, and read a magazine article or the news, and he says, eat more
meat, butter is back. (laughter) It’s the sugar killing you, not the meat. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Or get Atkins, Dukan, paleo, boo-boo diet, whatever it is. – [Peter] The boo-boo diet. (laughing) – [Joel] Yogi and Boo-Boo. (laughter) – [Peter] Yeah, the Yogi and Boo-Boo. It where you only eat small bears. – [Joel] Right. – [Peter] Oh, and picnic
baskets, I got it. (laughter) – [Joel] The point is
that we give more credence to studies that follow people for decades. 10, 20, 30 years. Large numbers of people. Looking at hard end points. – [Peter] Like the China Study. – [Joel] Yeah, or a lot of studies. You know, I can give you a Twinkie diet and you’ll actually look better in a year because you just got
sick of eating Twinkies, you cut your calories
back and you lost weight. (laughter) But over the ten year, twenty year period, you’re gonna die of cancer when eating the Twinkie diet even though
your weight is better. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] The point is here
is that a study published let’s say in British
Medical Journal in 2012 following 6,000 people
between the ages of 50 and 65. Followed them for 18 years. Those that had higher
amounts of animal protein had a four fold increased risk of cancer. 400% increased risk of
cancer and a 75% increase in total death over that 18 year period. In the higher protein group compared to the low animal protein group. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] The lower animal
protein group was less than 10% of animal product, which is less than 7.5% animal protein. The higher group was
30% of animal product, which is less than what Americans eat. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] And you have these– – [Peter] We eat like 60%. – [Joel] all these
trainers and paleo people advocating people to eat 50-60% percent of calories in animal– – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] When we know that
when you move from 10% to 30%, cancer rates go up four fold. That’s one study. Why believe one study? – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] Let’s pick more studies. Look at the studies. What are the studies we
give more credence to? The answer is the ones
that have large numbers of people and go on for many decades and use hard end points, like death. (laughter) – [Peter] That’s a hard death. – [Joel] That’s a hard end point. – [Peter] That’s a hard one, yeah. – [Joel] Study on an 129,000 people, the 129,000 people
study showed that people had a 43% increased risk of death with higher amounts of animal products compared to lower amounts. Let’s look at the study on 49,000 women who were studied cardiovascular deaths. They rated these women’s diet. We’re talking about
over 40,000 women here. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] They rated their
diets based on one to 20. They got a score of one to 20. One was like a vegan or mostly vegetables. 20 was Atkins type, totally ketogenic, high protein, low vegetable consumption. All the studied people they
studied were not eating much sugar in their diet. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] Low sugar, low
processed foods diets. Just looking at the otherwise the same, the only difference was the animal product consumption was different. And the amount of animal products got a score of one to 20. And they found that as you went up from one, two, three, four,
five, every score going up, the risk of death went up
2% for every point going up. And people above 16,
had a 60% increased risk of cardiovascular death,
not even cancer death. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] Compared to those below six. – [Peter] See when you– – [Joel] So we’re sowing here,
what I’m saying is that– – [Peter] Yes, please. – [Joel] Not controversial. It’s completely irresponsible to advocate people eat high amounts
of animal products. We could talk about what
lower amounts are acceptable. We could say where is the
gray area of discussion here? But the idea that animal
products are favorable, it has to be, we Americans as a whole, have to tremendously
cut back on the amount of animal proteins they eat, cause we even know the mechanisms involved which the hormonal effects from eating
so much animal protein. Why they raise the hormones. How it has the effects. It’s all explainable. And we know how it works. And we have the data, this is
established science by now. – [Peter] It’s funny
that you say the studies that we favor. You’re speaking as a scientist. I’m speaking as a regular person. I’m like, typically the
studies that we favor are the ones that say go eat more meat. Like we love those studies.
– Right. – [Peter] Like I remember first time– – [Joel] I need to make a study doing anything you want. The egg company could show a study. They could pull out, they can say, okay, look it didn’t matter if people
ate more or less eggs here. We can compare eggs to, put donuts– In other words, the
studies on saturated fat. Butter is back is all about putting people on more high glycemic carbohydrates and taking out the fats. And high glycemic carbohydrates
are worse than fats. But it doesn’t make the fats good because you’re high glycemic
carbohydrates are worse. It didn’t exonerate the saturated fat. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] The eggs are– – [Peter] It’s the lesser of two evil. – [Joel] So wonder you don’t buy a car by comparing it to a junkyard wreck. (laughter) The point is is that it
didn’t make another thing good because the other thing was bad. So we’re talking here
about, we really have to compare, look at what’s
the best way to eat. – [Peter] Well when I watch
your PBS talks and stuff, I get this overwhelming, and
I try not to do this because I don’t think I have a savior complex, but I do like to proselytize
and I tell people what’s really exciting to me and that’s why I’m having you on the podcast. They can listen or not. – [Joel] Yeah. – [Peter] But now that
we have them (laughs), I have so many friends on the paleo diet. I will say, I take issue with the idea that it’s eating like a caveman, cause no caveman killed
seven ducks, two pigs, and a cow in one day. – Yeah.
– You know what I’m saying? There’s so much meat going on but then when I hear you saying that it’s 400% more likely to get cancer when you’re eating all
those animal products– – [Joel] Right. – [Peter] I feel like I have to tell them. I want them, that’s why
I’m having you on the show. – [Joel] Right, it’s almost, it’s ill will not to say something. You’re making yourself more comfortable– – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] but it’s not
goodwill to be comfortable. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] It’s goodwill to be uncomfortable cause maybe you’re gonna help their life. Even if they don’t do it. At least you gave them the opportunity. – [Peter] At least you
gave them the agency. – [Joel] Right. – [Peter] You’re like,
now you’re doing it. – [Joel] Let’s look at
some of the data here and just do this in looking
at some of this data because there’s lots of studies that show that this could be dangerous. – [Peter] Right. And what about salt? Cause I hear you talk
about salt being bad. – [Joel] Yes, I do. – [Peter] And then I’m like, I think one of the health trends is we go, but pink Himalayan salt’s okay. Or liquid aminos, is anything
salty gonna be bad in the end? – [Joel] I heard when
they went to the moon, they took some salt off the backside of the moon and that salt’s good? (laughter) – [Peter] Oh, the Pink Floyd salt? (laughter) – [Joel] Sodium is sodium. The idea that some salts have more. That’s the most ridiculous thing in the alternative medicine community. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] Salt is 2,000 milligrams of sodium per teaspoon, right? – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] So it’s 2,000
milligrams of sodium. The little bit of minerals
that you have in some of these natural salts. – [Peter] Magnesium and whatnot. – [Joel] The amount of
minerals is microscopic. It’s not as much minerals
as one bite of vegetables. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] We’re talking about the amount of minerals plays no
effect on your health. – [Peter] So this is like
a play by big salt to say, hey, take some pink salt before bed. It’ll help you sleep. – [Joel] So I think it’s a scam of the alternative medicine community
trying to get people. But in any case salt causes
microvascular hemorrhaging. That means the endothelium,
the inner walls of your blood vessels
are inflamed from salt. Chronically inflamed. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] Weakening the
blood vessel lining, increasing your risk of
having a clot or having a break in the blood vessels
causing a hemorrhagic stroke. Over the years, it damages you, and takes it toll the years and years at the high salt diet
weakens your blood vessels eventually and one of the
leading cause of death. – [Peter] Hmph. – [Joel] With people so, if you ate foods without salt in them, you’d be still consuming salt because all natural foods contain sodium. That’s what humans did for millenniums, for 50,000 years. We ate the salt, it was in the food. And now we add salt on top of that and how much salt could we add that would be acceptable? And it looks like, if we added 200 to 400 a day over and above what the food had, it would still be under 1,000. 1,200 for a male, 1,000 for
a female, probably okay. But as people– – [Peter] 200 and 400 milligrams– – [Joel] of sodium over and above what’s in the natural food, then your total for the day would still be under 1,000. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] But it looks as if though, that the Americans consuming about 3,000. Some of the Asian countries
consuming more than 4,000. And we see as salt intake goes up, so does stomach cancer,
hemorrhagic stroke, overall strokes, there’s a lot of, – [Peter] Yeah. (laughing) – [Joel] So you can’t justify
any kind of natural sodium. – [Peter] Salt is salt. – [Joel] Salt is salt. – [Peter] I remember on
a date and I don’t want to cause a flutter in the
alternative medicine community, but David Wolfe puts salt in his water. He says your body is more like an ocean than it is a river and
you need to balance it out by taking in these “good
salts” or whatever. I remember hearing him
say that and being like, oh, I gotta put salt
in my water and I did. He was like, it helps
you absorb water better or something like that. – [Joel] There’s a lot
of nonsense out there. (laughter) And who do you, do you
pick a nutritional guru? – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] Or do you like
the guy’s mustache? (laughter) – [Peter] This is why I love you. You’re saying look at the data. – [Joel] Or you look at the data. – Yeah, look at the data.
– Yeah, look at data. How much studies have
you looked on this stuff and if the data’s not there,
then have an open mind to whatever you’re, could maybe have a little flexibility here. You don’t know what you
have to say, I don’t know. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] But there’s certain
things we know we could have overwhelming amount of data about it. – [Peter] Okay, salt. (laughter) – [Joel] So when you eat a healthy diet, and you don’t overeat salt, your kidneys get more effective at holding onto it. You don’t excrete as
much salt in your urine. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] And over the time
of being on a low salt diet, your sweat becomes lower levels
of sodium when you sweat. So now when you’re out
there running in marathons or exercising or playing
basketball or tennis, you’re not depleting yourself of sodium, cause your sweat doesn’t have sodium in it because your diet’s– – [Peter] Your body is using it better. – [Joel] your kidneys
are holding on to it, your sweat’s holding on to it. Your body is used to a low sodium diet. When you’re used to a high sodium diet, your sweat’s putting out sodium and your urine’s putting out
lots of sodium all the time. Then when you go exercise,
you excrete more sodium. Your sodium goes up and down,
where it’s not as stable. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] When you over drink
water, you wash away sodium. So the over consumption of water, this is why some people
who are heavy runners, can over hydrate and have a seizure. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] Because their levels
of sodium gets too low. It’s not that they
haven’t (mumble) sodium, it’s they over drank water. And you pee out too much electrolytes. – [Peter] Hmm. What do you think about alcohol? – [Joel] Well– – [Peter] I’m always looking
for a doctor to just be like, Pete this is what it’s doing, it’s why you shouldn’t drink it so maybe you can (laughing) be that guy? – [Joel] I try as much as possible not to have a personal opinion,
just to tell people– – Sure.
– what the science shows. – [Peter] What does the science show? – [Joel] It’s carcinogenic. – [Peter] Okay, so it’s like smoking. – [Joel] Well, smoking effects is maybe, women who drink for example one glass of wine a day have on the average a 12% increased risk of breast cancer. – [Peter] Really? – [Joel] Men who drink two glasses or more have higher rates of stroke
cancer, stomach cancer, squamous cell cancer
of the digestive tract. In other words, it mostly increases cancer in the areas that it touches going down. – [Peter] Hmph. – [Joel] Men can tolerate
alcohol a little better. People think it thins the blood. If you’re on a very unhealthy diet, the slight blood thing,
effect like an aspirin, can decrease your clotting,
having a heart attack, so it’s maybe some heart benefits there. But at the same time, it’s increasing risk of hemorrhagic stroke, cause
it’s thinning the blood. You could bleed to death. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] So alcohol is
really, so some people have been mistakenly thinking
oh, it’s good for the heart and it’s advertised as
having some benefits. It’s mildly carcinogenic. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] It’s not something that people should do for their health. They should eat right
to protect their heart, not drink alcohol to protect their heart. – [Peter] Um-hmm. How do you feel about coffee? – [Joel] I think it’s
okay in moderate amounts. Of course, unless they’re sweetening it. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] But of course,
or at least keeping you up at night or it’s making
you not sleep as well or you’re addicted to it. And because of the addictive withdrawal, the headaches, the buzz you
get from coming off coffee. It’s making you eat more food cause eating food can lessen
the headache from coffee. – [Peter] Interesting. – [Joel] So it could be a
trigger to eat more calories. As long as you’re slim
and it’s not a trigger to eat more calories and
as long as you’re eating it in the morning and
you’re not gonna have a lot that’s going to effect
you when you’re sleeping at night and you’re not, you know. So in moderate amounts it’s favorable. And for Americans, they
don’t eat enough black and dark beans and other
types of those kind of flavonols and black
beans and black berries and blueberries, right? So then the coffee bean
becomes a bean they’re eating and they get some polyphenols
that benefit them, to a degree. – [Peter] Okay. – [Joel] But it won’t really benefit. You didn’t have to drink
coffee for those polyphenols. You could have just eaten other foods that have those polyphenols in them. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] There’s some
silver lining to the coffee, so to speak. And the caffeine would
be the negative part, but there’s some beneficial parts especially for people
who are not regularly eating the beans and
dark polyphenol foods. – [Peter] Okay. And then I was surprised, I only asked you one question cause I
didn’t want to bother you when I met you in Hawaii. We were talking about being raw. And at the time I really
liked, I still like eating a lot of raw food, – [Joel] Um-hmm. – [Peter] And I was hosting a talk show and that was really good for my energy. I never really felt
bogged down till I ate a lot of raw stuff. – Right.
– But then you were like, you should cook your mushrooms. You were like, that is
better to eat a cooked mushroom than a raw one. – [Joel] Right, you remember that right. Cause it’s better to
eat the green vegetables and the onions raw
because there’s an enzyme called myrosinase in the green vegetable. It’s heat sensitive and then the onion has alliinase, it’s heat sensitive. And we deactivate those
enzymes with cooking. Then when you’re chewing or blending or eating those foods, you’re not forming as many of the anti-cancer compounds. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] So the certain foods benefit by eating more but mushrooms, very rich in anti-cancer compounds,
longevity promoting compounds. It’s like aromatase
inhibitors in mushrooms and angiogenesis inhibitors in mushrooms, which prevent cancer. And fat cells from growing on your body. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] But there’s
also a mild carcinogen in mushrooms called agaritine and when you heat up a mushroom,
even steam it or wok it for even two minutes, it
blows off into the air. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] And the beneficial
compounds aren’t destroyed with cooking in the
mushroom like they would be in the green vegetable. So yes, it’s better to eat most of your mushrooms cooked, not raw. – [Peter] Um-hmm. And I remember I also said,
how do you cook the basic? If people are listening and
they want to dabble in it, something that you taught
me, it’s seem so basic, was to cook the mushrooms
just in vegetable stock. Cause my first thought
was you’re gonna cook mushrooms, you’re gonna use
coconut oil or something. You think it’s a healthy oil or olive oil. These are healthy oils. You were like, no, just
maybe a little veggie stock. You were just talking about that recipe where you’re cooking in water. That I think is news to people. What are some things that– – [Joel] Take a wok, put it on the stove, put a 1/4 cup of water in there, throw your whole bunch of
broccoli, water chestnuts, snow pea pods, chopped
up onions and mushrooms, and shredded cabbage and
dump it in there, right? – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] Let that cook for five minutes. Stir it around a little bit. At the same time you’re doing that, make a sauce for it. Make a nice sauce. Let it start cooking in the water while you make a nice sauce. Throw into your blender
maybe a peanut butter, some hemp seeds, a date, maybe a squeeze of lemon grass paste in there
to give it a Thai flavoring. Maybe a little cumin or
a little bit turmeric for the anti-cancer effects
and effect a little spice. Put that in a blender. You could put a little
almond milk in there once you get it a little
thickness you want. Whip it up, your sauce is done. Pour that right out of the blender, right onto the cooking vegetables now. It’s ready to go and just wok
it for another two minutes and you’ve got a great vegetable dish. – [Peter] I just love how excited you are. Nobody cares about what they’re doing. You really care about it and you make people excited about it. You just made me excited
about vegetable stir fry. – [Joel] No big deal right? – [Peter] Yes, no big deal. But most people like my in-laws are not vegan, for example. They come over our house,
we try and cook them a vegan meal and be like, this is vegan. And it just doesn’t compute as a meal unless there was, like the idea of just having soup for
a meal is preposterous to a lot of people that I know and love. – [Joel] But the beans give you that hefty kind of feel to the meal. Without the beans there, it’s just the vegetables are too light. The calories– – [Peter] I completely agree. – [Joel] Beans and nuts
add that hefty feel. – [Peter] Ooh, Cialis. You didn’t mention dick pills (laughter) in your things that people are prescribed. I mean, that has to be a
canary in the coal mine, if you’re having problems in that area, wouldn’t you say? – [Joel] Well, I would say this. That most men develop
problems in those areas because of circulatory problems. Because of diabetes, because of their cruddy diet. So they age prematurely,
and they don’t just get problems with their erections, they get problems with their back pain, they get problems with the circulation of their joints. They get problems with
their hips and their knees and their whole body falls apart. It’s not just the one part
of the body falls apart. It’s representative of their
whole body falling apart. (laughter) – [Peter] I knew you’d
have a good one for that. So this is just another
hammer hand situation where they’re like, my
penis stopped working. They’re like, well take this when really you should fucking cool it
on the garbage you’re eating. – [Joel] Right. They would age slower. They’d maintain their youthful vigor, their mental faculties and
their physical faculties and their sexual ability. All these things would stay lasting longer and they wouldn’t need
to be drug dependent and having to pay all this money. – [Peter] Because you make so much sense and I enjoy you so much, I wonder what you run into the most as people that might be critical of this. It does seem a little extreme. I love it, but people
listening might be like, I’m not just gonna eat
stir fry three meals a day. Or steel cut oats– – [Joel] I’m not telling them to eat– – [Peter] I know, there’s variety. – [Joel] There’s a tremendous variety and certainly this is a fun way to eat and they should learn more about it. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] So yeah, so I
don’t think that they– – [Peter] But what is the
big thing that people, other physicians may be
that say, what you’re saying makes so much sense. Is it just a matter of
time for this to spread? – [Joel] I don’t know. But most people aren’t gonna eat this way. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] They’re too
addicted and the people that need it the most
are the ones most likely not to do it. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] Cause they’re so addicted, they don’t even want to look at it, – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] or consider it. But most of my career as a physician and as training to become a physician. Most of the response I had from, like in medical school when I was talking about stuff like this. Same response you get today. Because people say, oh yeah, we know that makes sense and we know it works most likely but people aren’t gonna want to change their diet so I’m just gonna give them a pill anyways. It’ll take me too long to explain it. And if I explain it, they’re not gonna do it anyway– – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] So I’m just,
I can’t possibly keep the patients, see enough patients. I’m not going to waste my time. I’m not gonna talk for hours and they’re not gonna even listen to me. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] So it’s a waste of my time. It’s just much easier to write a pill and you’re not gonna make, and they used to always say, you’re not gonna make a living that way. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] You’re gonna make money, you’re gonna be taking up too much time. You’re not gonna change
a lot of people’s minds. They’re not gonna change the way they eat. They just want a simple,
people want a simple solution. They want– – [Peter] It’s too many people too. It’s too many people to explain this to if you’re a doctor, doing your rounds. You can’t
– You can’t – do this spiel
– Right. – 300 times.
– Right, but now we have the American College of Lifestyle Medicine is a growing medical specialty. I’ll give you an example. A guy, he’s the head of invasive interventional cardiology. Interventional cardiology that people put the stents in. And here I’m telling ’em about how bad it is to put a stent in, right? – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] So he gets up in front a medical conference with all
these doctors and he says three people effected my life the most. My mother, my father, and Dr. Fuhrman. (laughter) Isn’t that amazing? (laughter) And I’m not stenting people anymore. I’m teaching them about nutrition. – [Peter] Wow. – [Joel] Because I work for the VA, and I don’t get more money anyway if they put a stent in, based on how productive I am putting stents in. I make money. I want to keep these people healthy. – [Peter] Yeah, he has no
incentive, that’s great. – [Joel] No incentive and I have people have been getting much better results changing the way they eat. And if I could tell ’em with strength that the guy that just smacked their head against the wall and say you’re committing suicide with food, you
gotta make these changes. And not put a stent,
it’s not gonna help you. You gotta really turn your health around and it works, people do it. We want people to eat cooked beans in their diet, very
protective against longevity. All Blue Zones people, groups of people. – [Peter] What’s Blue Zone? – [Joel] Blue Zones are
areas around the world where you have the most centenarians, most people living over 100. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] And all the Blue Zones– – [Peter] Centenarians. You have a lot of fun terms (laughs). – [Joel] I didn’t invent that word. – [Peter] No, I know. I don’t think you invited the stat one either (laughs) but they’re great. (laughter), they’re fun. – [Joel] The only word I
coined was Nutritarian. – [Peter] Yeah, there you
go, and that’s a good one. – [Joel] That’s a great word, right? – [Peter] I like that
it’s just so indifferent. If you read data that
said we should all be eating a cow head and
it needs to be freshly killed in front of us, you’d be like, well, that’s what we should be eating. – [Joel] Right. – [Peter] Whereas I like, a lot of vegans, became vegan and then started looking into the morality because it was
more comfortable for me. You’re just doing, what
should human beings be eating. That’s what I’ve been looking for my entire life (laughter). Just fucking tell me what to eat and you’re like eat some
red peppers you idiot. (laughter) – [Joel] The fact that I get letters and those emails everyday of people who have changed their
life, saved their life, reversed their heart
disease, got rid of their psoriasis, got rid of their asthma, got rid of their migraines. People who were literally in bed, who had no life back to
having a full life again. It’s just been so exciting. I feel so lucky– – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] and rewarded and humbled the fact that I’ve affected
so many people’s lives having this opportunity. I didn’t think when I became a doctor, I’d have so many people, the ability to affect so many people’s lives, – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] you know what I mean? – [Peter] Well that’s the story
of when you met your wife. You looked down your nose at doctors. They just prescribe
bullshit and they’re just kind of a cog in the
system and you went outside again, not to butter your bread too much, but this is why you’re exciting. You stepped outside and succeeded. You broke away from the pack. The other thing I like
is you’re not telling anybody anything that
doesn’t make intuitive sense. Eating living, colorful things as opposed to things that are packaged red and yellow and there’s some blue because they know that our brains are evolutionarily wired to desire those types of things. Those colors, those flavors. You’re just saying go
back and eat that stuff. (laughter) – [Joel] Right, and people– – [Peter] And a lot of it! – [Joel] Right. And so we don’t have to cut, we don’t have to eat thimble
sized portions of food. We can eat liberally as much as we want when we eat the right
foods and we’re gonna want the right amount. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] So it’s not that difficult. It’s not uncomfortable, and eventually you begin to prefer this way of eating. You’re not on a diet, it’s
the way you prefer to eat. For lots of reasons. You enjoy it more, you
like the way you feel good. You like the way it
effects you intellectually. It effects you emotionally. You feel good about yourself. You enjoy your life. You feel protected. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] It’s just so, a lot of people are embracing this idea of
eating a Nutritarian diet. – [Peter] One of the
jokes I love is you say this diet couldn’t have
been made better if it was done by Al-Qaeda. – [Joel] Right. – [Peter] It’s the most destructive inside sort of terrorist activity that– – [Joel] Yes, we have the perfect diet designed to kill people. And to keep them in a
really, in a tragic state. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Because we mix together the high glycemic
carbohydrates like white bread, like a hamburger bun with a hamburger. – [Peter] Mm. – [Joel] And when you
mix those two things– – [Peter] It’s in the title of the book! (laughter) – [Joel] Right. – [Peter] You gotta get the hamburger. That’s why they made the book. (laughter) – [Joel] Macaroni and cheese, – Yeah.
– Hamburgers. But the point is is when you mix together the high glycemic carbohydrate
with a concentrated animal protein, you raise
both insulin and IGF1. The carbohydrate raises the insulin, the meat raises the IGF1,
insulin-like growth factor one. And that combination,
that particular sandwich of carb hormones produces cancer. – [Peter] Mm. – [Joel] Promotes breast cancer the most. But it doesn’t just promote breast cancer, it promotes aging of the
brain, aging of your body, destruction of your joints. We’re talking here about
a health care crisis in this country and of course, in a lot of the modern world. Cancer is a new phenomenon, it never occurred in human history. Scrotal cancer was first developed in chimney sweeps in the mid 17th century. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] We’re talking
about something that really, we never had breast cancer. Countries have 1/50 of breast cancer. – [Peter] I haven’t heard that. Breast cancer is like
a relatively new thing. – [Joel] Absolute new thing. We did some autopsies on
female, people from the pyramids, where they were in the corpses that were in, the bodies were preserved. – [Peter] Yeah, sure. – [Joel] No, we didn’t
see any breast cancer at all in women. And they said, that’s because
they didn’t live a long, no, no, no. We have, we can test how long they lived and we can see that even in
people that lived longer, – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] we didn’t see these cancers. – [Peter] We can read the hieroglyphics. There’s 38 pocks here, she was 38. (laughter) But then, that’s very tragic. – [Joel] But the point is is that cancer that we know through the
history of literature and of medical literature, that cancer is a recent phenomenon. – [Peter] This is a free podcast. I don’t know if you know,
you’re dropping some bombs here. (laughter) – [Joel] Nutritional science
has made such incredible advances in the last 20
years that we have the power so our population never
has to have heart attacks and strokes and get demented. And we can wipe out 90% of the cancer, and also invent this magic pill. This is a stupid, the
craziest thing in the world. We’re gonna invent this magic pill from the drug company, – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] People can smoke
cigarettes for 30 years, three packs a day, take a
pill and not get lung cancer? – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] We’re gonna eat American food and not get breast
cancer or prostate cancer with a magic pill? It’s not gonna work. We have the answers right now. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] The answers right
now is in your kitchen. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] And right in your own control. – [Peter] See again,
this is why I think I get really excited when I listen to you talk. Is you’re in the freedom business. I like anybody that’s liberating people. – [Joel] You don’t want
to do it, don’t do it. – [Peter] If you don’t want to do it, don’t do it. – [Joel] I don’t care if you don’t do it. – [Peter] Yeah, eat whatever you want. – [Joel] I’d be in medical school, walking in my class, (laughter) in the path to get to my seat and people would be
hiding their candy bars. (laughter) And I’d go, I’m not your mother. (laughter) Eat whatever you want. (laughter) – [Peter] Yeah, but you’re saying that you’re being sold a bill of goods. When people are with advertising, you talk about the sugar and the salt that you don’t even taste that they put into fast food. – [Joel] Yeah, and they’re addicting too. – [Peter] It’s not even
to make you taste it. I get that fat and salt taste good. And sugar tastes good. But injecting it into the
inside of a french fry or in the batter. – [Joel] They inject into
the french fry batter. They put the sugar and salt
and the MSG in the meat. – [Peter] Just for your brain. – [Joel] Just so it makes
you get more thirsty. Drink more soda, eat more food. The more you put salt and
oil and sugar in a food, the more people are gonna
increase their caloric intake. And oil comes in free. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Oil doesn’t shut off the apastat. In other words, if I gave
you 200 calories of walnuts, you’d eat 200 calories less of the lunch because the walnuts would
shut off your apastat and stop you from taking
in those calories. – [Peter] Apastat? Like thermostat? – Yeah, like a thermostat.
– I love it! – [Joel] So if I put 200
calories of walnut oil because there’s no fiber
associated with it, – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] You wouldn’t
sense you’re eating it cause there’s no way the
body can sense how much calories, the body doesn’t
sense calories as much– – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] as it senses the bulk
of the food and the fiber. – [Peter] I’ve seen
that image of a stomach and it fills up with 300 calories of oil. – [Joel] Right, and that’s
why I made that image– – [Peter] That’s you! When you eat a lot of lettuce
or whatever it might be. Eat a big salad, your
stomach gets, what is it? The apa– – [Joel] The apastat? – [Peter] How did I forget? It’s so fun, the apastat gets triggered because your stomach
is full but you can eat a lot of fuck ton of oil, you can swear on this podcast (laughs)
without feeling full. So you put out the oil and
the bread before the meal. And people are sopping up– – [Joel] Right, you’re
sopping up free calories cause you don’t sense
it, you eat just as many calories in the meal. But oil, as opposed to eating whole foods, makes you eat more
calories so it’s not just the extra calories you took from the oil, but adding salt and oil
and sugar to the food makes you even want to eat more calories than you need. And more calories than you need of course shortens your life span. – [Peter] This is insane. This is insane. Well that’s why I think
about in terms of freedom. These people are, food
companies are figuring out what your brain wants and
ways to trick your brain into eating things and
they’re just trying to sell more product. It’s not really, you’re bad for business. What you preach is bad for business. – [Joel] And I’m bad
for the drug companies and all of it, the restaurant business and everybody hates me, that’s why I have a bodyguard. That’s why I have a bullet proof vest and a bodyguard. – [Peter] That is not true. – [Joel] No, I’m just kidding. (laughter) – [Peter] Going back to the freedom of it, people think that eating whatever we want, I’ve talked to people
about nutrition before. I can be annoying in that way. I’m trying to help or whatever it is. And my friends are like
I’d rather live shorter and eat whatever I want. I’m sure this is something
that people say to you. – [Joel] Sure. That’s what people who are delusional– (laughter) – [Peter] Tell me what you mean. I know what you mean, but tell me. – [Joel] Food is very addicting. And people who are self delusional and illogical will come up with irrational excuses why they continue
to smoke cigarettes, snort cocaine, or do
whatever they want to do. – [Peter] You’re saying
it’s the same thing. You’re saying these people are addicted to these things, the dopamine
associated with eating. – [Joel] Dopamine in the brain
is the same as narcotics. – [Peter] Yep. – [Joel] And it takes away
part of their conscious brain. So their addictions are talking, because your primitive brain wants to protect your addictions. So you come up with
these delusional excuses why you can still smoke cigarettes. When I’m pregnant I’ll stop. Right now I have too
much stress in my life. As if smoking cigarettes, snorting cocaine or eating junk food lowers your stress. It takes away your ability
to make choices in life because it makes you stupider. – [Peter] Is that right? – [Joel] Yes, like when
you eat processed foods and sugar, and honey and
maple syrup and french fries. When you eat those foods,
it destroys brain cells like alcohol does. So it’s making you dumber,
and it’s making you takes a cloud over your life, like a fog. Makes you more depressed,
makes you unable to make good choices in life. It makes you make bad decisions and you’re unable to
succeed at your career. So it puts a level of, it lowers the level of ability and achievement in your life. Lowers your ability to be happy and then you’re saying, I
gotta keep doing it though, I gotta keep doing it. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Because I’m
gonna live a better life. You’re no longer in control of your life. Your addiction is in control of your life. Decisions are made by your addictions. Craving those foods,
having to eat those things. And then you’re ill all the time and then you get to be older, – And then you get really ill.
– you’re really ill. You’re depending on physicians,
you have joint pain, hip replacement, back hurts, your kidneys are going bad. You’re taking medications. Your life revolves around
your medical problems. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] And you think
you had a better life and they don’t even know that they would have liked the food, the
taste of the healthy food better anyway. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Cause that’s another ridiculous– – [Peter] Well, it was
never offered to us, was it? – [Joel] Yeah, they didn’t even know that they could make
healthy foods taste good and they didn’t train their taste buds. In other words, when your
taste buds are deadened by the high sugar, high
salt, highly palatable diet, you don’t enjoy the
flavor in a strawberry. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] I can give you,
what do you want to eat? Apple pie a la mode? I can give you a healthy
apple pie a la mode that tastes just as good
but you gotta get used to eating this way before
you really appreciate– – Right.
– the taste as much as I’m gonna appreciate the taste. – [Peter] And you said that
it takes a couple weeks just to kind of flush it
out or, is it not really? – [Joel] No, it takes more than that. – [Peter] It takes more than that? – [Joel] Often in my
career as a physician, I thought it took like
three months to get your taste buds to really come back fully. – [Peter] Uh-huh. – [Joel] But I actually
did a study and published it in Nutrition Journal
that we tested it on people. And to see how much time
did it take them to like this way of eating more
than their old diet. And for a large number of people, it took six months, actually. – [Peter] Is that right? – [Joel] Even three
months, their taste buds didn’t even come back yet. – [Peter] This is why I
wanted to have you on. Is you’re talking about,
you’re just looking at science. You seem like a guy that
goes like, I don’t have an agenda in this way. – [Joel] That’s correct, that’s correct. – [Peter] I’m not being paid
by the vegetable people. – [Joel] That’s right. I don’t wanna have, I
feel that it’s my duty as a nutritional scientist
and as a physician specializing in nutrition not
to have a predetermined bias. Not to have any other agendas. I mean, sure eating less animal products and less meat will be
good for the environment. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] But I’m not a climate scientist. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] It’ll be good,
there’s ethical reasons, but I’m not an ethicist. In other words, I stick to what I do best. – [Peter] You’re sticking to one area. – [Joel] I’m sticking to
getting the nutrition, being familiar with all the science, and giving people the
science that’s unaffected by any other factors and they can use this to know they have unbiased information to make choices they want to make. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] That they can
make the best choice for their life. – [Peter] Have you heard
anything about the stress? (laughter) Some of my friends that love
to eat, myself included, you want a cheat or strike,
they’ll sometimes quote, I haven’t even seen the
study, they’re like they said that the stress associated
with denying yourself the foods that you want is also
really bad (laughs) for you. Have you ever heard that? – [Joel] I don’t know if
there may be something like it, but that’s, no. That’s totally ridiculous. (laughter) Snort cocaine, I’m gonna snort cocaine. That’s good for me because the stress of denying me cocaine is gonna
not be good for my health. (laughter) That’s a really good one. – [Peter] You see, going back to– – [Joel] That just shows people don’t know that white bread with salt
and sodium bromide in it is a class two carcinogen. These are carcinogenic
foods that cause diabetes and dementia and they’re
addictive and denying yourself things that are dangerous for you is not, it’s called good sense– – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] and sensible. – [Peter] I heard you
say something interesting that statistically
speaking, life span appeared to be shorter centuries ago, but it was because so many women
were dying in childbirth and so many children were
dying early on as well. – [Joel] Yes, that’s right. – [Peter] So it kinda– – [Joel] High infant mortality, high childhood mortality,
high child birth mortality. One in nine women died giving child birth. But if we look at, for example, in the 13th and 14th centuries, take the males who were
Renaissance artists, who produced works of art. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] They had longer life span than the average male
today in this country has. – [Peter] Mm. – [Joel] So the idea that
we’re living longer than before is yeah, we are, but adults
aren’t living longer. Adult males aren’t living longer. – [Peter] This is what I
love about this message. It’s not about shaming people
for wanting to drink soda– – [Joel] Yes, it is. (laughter) – [Peter] We can shame if we like, but what I’m saying is
it’s more you’re saying, you got pulled into something
that you didn’t understand. – [Joel] Right. – [Peter] Like you got tricked. That’s why I like I think
you’re in the freedom business. People are drinking soda, eating cake, all that stuff because
we think it’s normal and you’re saying it
doesn’t have to be that way. Tell the people what a
Nutritarian is basically. – [Joel] Well, the word
Nutritarian is a word I coined. That means a person who
is eating very healthfully and trying to get sufficient
nutrients in their diet. There could be people that are
philosophical Nutritarians. Philosophical Nutritarian
is a person that understands that they’re in control of
their health and the quality that they live their life. The healthier they eat effects their long term health later on in life. – [Peter] Right. It’s about longevity, it’s about health, it’s about not getting a stroke, not getting a heart attack. – [Joel] Right. – [Peter] It’s reversing
diabetes or something. – [Joel] You being in
control of your life. Not having it be luck. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Or even genetics. – [Peter] That’s one of the crazy things that we all do is we all
walk around going like, and I do this, is today
the day that I feel some weird pain and I go to somebody like you, and you’re like, sorry. – [Joel] Yeah. – [Peter] We go to hospitals– – [Joel] And fear! Living with fear of getting
cancer every minute. Can’t run to a bus, you’re
gonna have a heart attack? – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] Beginning to any
time over the age of 60, I want to be doing moguls
and playing volleyball on the beach and sprinting
and racing my kids and see who can run faster. (laughter) – [Peter] Still winning, damn it. – [Joel] Yeah, exactly. You want to live longer
and do all the things you did in your 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s that you did in your 20s. Now, why should you change? Why should your life not
get the full enjoyment? – [Peter] And you’re saying
that it doesn’t have to. I get the feeling when I go to the doctor, if I have some weird thing
that I want them to check out, you have your freedom pass and then you go into the hospital and you’re like, are you going to renew my freedom? Can I leave and continue
behaving exactly the same way? You talk about it like hitting your hand with a hammer and then
going to the doctor. You tell it, it’s your thing, it’s better. – [Joel] And also the point
I was making right now is fear is bad for your health. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] And going for these medical tests in constant fear of disease. You have the fear of disease
on you all of the time. When you eat healthy,
you have freedom of fear. And it not only makes
your brain, makes you see, have your full brain faculties as you age. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] But it means
you’re aging with joy. – [Peter] That’s what I’m saying, that’s why I’m having you on. – [Joel] Yeah. – [Peter] This isn’t about
fat shaming or anything, this is about life living and joy having. And that’s why I get very
excited talking to you now. – [Joel] I’m saying you hit
your hand with a hammer. It’s like going to a doctor, you hit your hand with a hammer everyday. Go to a doctor who gives you
a pill to take away your pain, you go back home and hit your
hand with a hammer again. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] You’re looking
for drug seeking behavior. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Is he going to doctors
whose toolbox are drugs? – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] You can’t get health from drugs. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] You can’t buy
your health in a bottle. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] You have to earn it. Drugs have nothing to do with your health. – [Peter] Right. And you’ve even said
that the health industry can even be downright harmful. It’s just the way that it’s been set up. – [Joel] I said it a little more, adamant than that. – [Peter] Is that right? (laughs) Well, please. – [Joel] I’m saying here that this sounds quite radical but I think I
have the science to support it. – [Peter] I love it. – [Joel] That what the
medical profession mostly does is not just worthless. (laughter) Because worthless means
not good or not bad. (laughter) It just means nothing. – [Peter] It’s neutral. – [Joel] Neutral. Cumulatively it’s worse than worthless. (laughter) Because when you’re treating people. When the number one
drugs are blood pressure medications, diabetic
medications, anxiety medications, antidepressants, and
cholesterol lowering drugs. These drugs, where the
person has the high blood pressure, has the anxiety,
has the depression, has the high cholesterol
because of what they’re eating– – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] And you don’t
give them the opportunity that they could have
gotten well and you just have a drug that’s
gonna cause more further serious problems like cancer. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Then you’ve sold that person out and you’ve added the toxic drug. It’s not like you’re the
person with the hammer now who smacked their hand
is just getting a pill, now they added more
toxic and cancer causing and more harmful
substances into their body over and above hitting
themself with the hammer. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Cause the drug
put further toxins into their body on top of the
bad foods they were eating. – [Peter] So they’re worse now? – [Joel] Their long term health. And antibiotics cause cancer. Double the risk of breast cancer. 14 courses of antibiotics
through your life. The point is is that, and most of them are prescribed for people
who have viral infections in which they don’t work. People go to doctors and doctors use fear and the people are
fearful of getting sick. And people give the people what they want. Give the drugs that they
know are cancer causing or dangerous and then the elderly people that aren’t going to help them anyway. And if they were going to help them like lowering their blood pressure to prevent a stroke or
lowering their blood to hurt their kidneys, then it would have been better if they hadn’t used. Or diabetics medication, then it would have been better if they had
used nutrition, not the drug. In the ACCORD Study, was that we took the National Institute
of Health did it in 2008. They had to stop the
study because the people who had more medical
care, more doctor visits, and more visits with
the nurse practitioner to keep their glucose in the most favorable range for the diabetics. The more they had the doctor visits, the more they kept their glucose lower, increased their death rate rapidly– – [Peter] Oh, really? – [Joel] so they had to stop the study. – [Peter] The opposite
of what they wanted. – [Joel] That’s right, it
had the opposite effect because more control of the
glucose meant more drugs. And the drugs make you gain weight. The drugs make the family
beta cells in the pancreas overwork themselves pushing harder, it poops you out faster. So your diabetes becomes more advanced. It leads to more insulin, more growth promoting drugs like this make you promote cellular
replication in cancer. More of these drugs cause cancer. They accelerate your diabetic parameters get worse over time. They look like they’re
temporarily getting better but over time they make you worse. It’s like bringing your
car to the gas station mechanic with the oil light
flashing on your dashboard, and he reaches in there
with a wire clippers and he cuts the wire to the dashboard
so you can’t see the light flashing and then you
drive your car with no oil and your car burns out. Here we go to the doctor,
he fixes the blood pressure with a medication or the blood glucose with a medication but it makes
you burn out the car faster. They didn’t tell you about that, that you’re gonna (mumble)
cancer from the drugs. It’s gonna burn out the diabetes faster. They’re gonna worsen. They’ll give you drug, put in the stent in your heart for angina. And now we put a foreign
body in your heart. Which increases the chance of having a clot for the rest of your life and by the way, putting the stent in not extend your life because it doesn’t stop future heart attacks because the vulnerable plaque isn’t the most obstructive plaque that had the calcifications that caused the blockage anyway. It’s the other part of the heart that you don’t even treat with the stent that’s gonna cause the heart attack. But now they put the foreign body with the stent in your heart. Now we gotta put you
on blood thinning drugs the rest of your life. And these blood thinning
drugs now increase your risk of hemorrhagic stroke and gastrointestinal bleeding. And now you have to be on
a drug and so now you’re– – [Peter] You’re taking a
drug for the drug. (laughs) – [Joel] You’re taking
a drug for the drug. So now you’re at higher
risk of hemorrhagic stroke because you thinned the blood. And then the blood pressure medication cause atrial fibrillation
so we gave you a higher risk of hemorrhagic stroke, but of course they irritate your stomach
from these blood thinners. Now I gotta give you a drug for that. (laughter) And those drugs weaken your bones. And the drug for weakening your bones they gave women increased
risk of atrial fibrillation, we’re back to that again. – [Peter] Oh my God. – [Joel] Which irregular heartbeat, it’s all big, vicious cycle. (laughter) So I’m saying that it’s bizarre, it’s barbaric, and people
are completely uninformed and I would be okay if you want to get into this medical model of
treating everything with a pill. And you think your life’s gonna be better eating the junk food to earn that. And I wouldn’t have any objection to that if people were adequately informed. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] If they had
comprehensive informed consent. – [Peter] If they knew– – [Joel] If they knew all the risks of what they were going through. If they knew how effectively they could reverse their diabetes and get off the cholesterol lowering drugs. If they knew how their blood pressure could more be effectively
treated with the right diet. And they still chose to take those drugs that are gonna double the
risk of getting breast cancer, or increase the risk
of hemorrhagic stroke, they want to go that way. Go ahead, it’s a free world. – [Peter] Mm. – [Joel] But I’m thinking
there are millions more people that would adopt a more
aggressive nutritional approach having been given all the correct facts. – [Peter] Hmm. – [Joel] That are never made aware of. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] Yeah. – [Peter] Wow, I think
this is news to people. People with type two, and
sometimes type one diabetes, you can reverse that through
diet is what we’re saying. – [Joel] Isn’t it crazy
that a person with diabetes wouldn’t know they had
the option to reverse it? – [Peter] That’s what I’m saying. – [Joel] Isn’t that crazy, they don’t even know they could reverse it. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] And that’s
what’s really terrible. Can we clarify that though,
cause it’s important? – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] A type two diabetic is the type that can be reversed. – [Peter] Yeah. – [Joel] That’s the person
that usually is overweight and they developed it later in life. Type one is those more
likely to be childhood onset where the beta cells in
the pancreas are destroyed. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] That’s not typically reversible. Especially when you’re
catching it later on in life. However, it’s so critically important that a type one diabetics
adopts a Nutritarian diet because they’re conventionally
treated with all the insulin they need to
keep their glucoses low. And they’re not told that they’re doubling or tripling
their need for insulin. They using six units a day, that’s gonna cut short
their life by 30 years. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] You have to eat
a diet that only requires you to use 20 units a
day, not six units a day. In other words, what I’m saying
is that type one diabetics have incredible morbidity
and early mortality because they’re overusing insulin because the diet they’re on is
inappropriate for them. – [Peter] Um-hmm. – [Joel] And even though
they’re still gonna require some insulin, they’re insulin
needs would be 2/3 less. They wouldn’t have highs and lows. They’d have a normal life
to live 95 to 105 years old without having the morbidity,
the kidney problems, the eye problems, the nerve
problems that the diabetics so typically get. Leading cause of blindness. And the other thing
is, I do have type ones that reversed their diabetes. But they came to me, it’s
a few of them, not many. It’s a few that came to me
when they were very young, like four to seven year
old kids whose parents brought them in when
they were first diagnosed with type one diabetes
and they immediately adopted the Nutritarian diet. And as they went into
their honeymoon period, they never came out. – [Peter] Mm. – [Joel] In other words,
they ate so healthfully when they were just getting
the diabetes at a very young age that they were
able to recover from it and eventually the
antibodies against the beta cells in the pancreas start
to come back to normal. I have a lot of these kids
right now I’m treating that have type one diabetes
that are off their, that had type one diabetes
that are off their insulin. – [Peter] You could at
least lower the insulin. – [Joel] No, they’re off
their insulin completely. – Off it.
– They’re off it. (laughter) They don’t have type one anymore. They’re cured. But, that’s not most type one diabetics, that’s only because we
caught it so early on. – [Peter] So early. – [Joel] I even have one
kid that caught it before it became type one diabetic. They caught the antibodies
in his blood cells starting to increase that would put him at higher risk of developing
type one diabetes. If he got the virus that kind of works with the antigens that
destroy the beta cells. So we got him, we caught him early on so now he’s on the reversal program. He never had type one diabetes. – [Peter] Hm. – [Joel] We’re preventing
him from getting it because he had the blood
markers that indicated he was at high risk for it. – [Peter] Hm, wow. – [Joel] So what I’m saying
to you is that I don’t, so even though I consider
type one diabetes not a typically reversible
illness, there are some cases, unique cases, where it has been reversed if we caught it very early. – [Peter] But the type
two that is sometimes, I’m not an expert, caused by
diet and whatever it might be, can be reversed with diet? – [Joel] Right. Most type two diabetics
are insulin resistant. Their pancreas is still
producing enough insulin. If they eat properly, they lose weight, they get healthy, they have
enough insulin production to not need medication, to
have normal hemoglobin A1cs and not be diabetic. So they’re essentially
a non-diabetic because they have normal blood parameters
and don’t need medication. Should they go back and eat poorly again and gain weight again,
they’ll get diabetes again. – [Peter] Right. – [Joel] But as long as
they’re eating right, they’re non-diabetic. – [Peter] Right. I literally was concerned for you. I was like, I’m gonna ask
Dr. Fuhrman all these things. What is a Nutritarian and all this stuff? And here you are, demonstrating
(laughs) higher level of brain function and energy and passion. – [Joel] And I’m 95 years old. (laughter)


  1. America needs to hear this. The whole of America, everybody, come together and listen to the words, feel your gut, feed your gut, check out this bean

  2. From memory, it seems like I'm farting about the same if not less than before. Amazing considering I've been including cabbage/broccoli and beans every godamn day for the past 8-ish-days! (I will admit, the first couple meals of beans had me expectedly annoyingly gassy.. smh smdh)

  3. great podcast, I love the overall message and dietary recommendations, but some specific things Dr. Joel Fuhrman says are strikingly inaccurate. most notably, regarding the history of cancer and the effects of alcohol on brain cells.

  4. Wow Jack, really holding your place as the fourth best minimalist funk arranger by accomplishing the extraordinary! Removing all forms of music from the piece. Stunning work!

  5. Love this guy Fuhrman! Got into the nutritarian diet after suffering alopecia (having terrible bald spots), getting basal skin cancer warts over my face, and being over weight (tbh probably considered average in american standards). Within a the first week I started to notice all those cancer warts stopped oozing blood, then every day I could tell they were getting smaller bit by bit. After 2-3 months they were completely gone and I could feel specks of my hair come back on the alopecia spots that were completely bald for just about a year. After 6 months all of those spots had hair growing from them again and life is good haha.

    I also had other problems I thought was due to age like blood filling up in my knee and joint pains in my joints and hands (carpal tunnel). Also was so weird realzing that your mind is no longer working in a haze all the time like its constantly tired or just fogged up no matter how much rest I get. Mentally got so much more clarity and just felt sharp. Have so much energy I had to start just working out just because I wanted to use up that energy. Honestly I couldn't be more thankful to furhman.

  6. I think I might have to listen to this once a week. I really struggle with healthy eating but I want to be around for years to make, listen to and enjoy the best music possible.

    Gotta do this!

  7. Damn this guy knows his shit, I'm a chemist and so far he has not made any statements that are just plain wrong.
    My biology is decent but this guys, jezus. Usually the "food doctors" are so full of shit but…

  8. Can't believe I listened to all of that, gonna work in some more G-BOMBS into my diet.
    Beans, greens and onions are already in there but berries and seeds, we"ll see how that goes.

  9. beans, beans the magical fruit, the more you eat the more you toot! the more you toot the better you feel, let's have beans for every meal!

  10. Really good video. I think this might be my favorite Fuhrman video and I've watched one a day for the last couple weeks. Just polished off a huge breakfast salad. Actually I saved a little bit; I'm quite full. Not gonna stuff myself, unless it still tastes really good. It was delicious; but I'm not hungry now. Anyway, just watching the stupid bean pulsate, the occasional deepening resonating radio effect; Fuhrman talking a mile a minute but so on point; and then the host cussing occasionally. This is really good. I'm gonna start making videos of myself preparing salads, veggie bean soups, and ice cream (blended frozen fruit sorbets). It's gonna be awesome!

  11. A couple seconds after 39:59, the announcer says something absolutely profound about why Americans eat shit, and it's even more basic than the idea that we're eating what we want, or the idea that we're addicted to the junk food: We were never offered healthful foods; we never had a period in our lives where we were fed healthfully as children, say, or on a retreat where that's all we ate for a couple months. What I'm saying is just learning how to prepare the foods, and having the experience of eating them shows you that you can enjoy eating this way. It's not a choice to eat unhealthfully. And it's not an addiction, primarily, maybe. It's just simple fucking ignorance: we just don't know. We're not aware of other ways to eat. We fear we won't enjoy it because our experiences with vegetables are shitty and (like mushy goop with butter and salt that tastes disgusting) and everything we like is unhealthy so we're, understandably, very concerned. But if we just had Fuhrman handing us: okay, here's a salad. Okay, now try this veggie bean soup. And, oh, yeah for desert, here's some banana walnut vanilla bean ice cream. We'd be like, fuck, this is easy to eat.

  12. Poor audio mix, annoying echo effect and inappropriate laughter. Nothing really new and interesting, heard it all before.

  13. Fuhrman is exactly right, the medical profession is now complicit with the other industries that fuck over people and the environment so a few can live elite snobbish worthless lives, there is something totally wrong. The model is one that fewer and fewer people can even escape now.

  14. Who is he talking about at around 30:00?
    My only gripe with Fuhrman’s excellent lectures/interviews is that he doesn’t name external references enough. In his books I know he does. But in interviews and such things he never really named the studies he references or, in this case, the person he’s referring to.

  15. I have tried many times to eat plants based but was put off by some people saying beans are not good. But now i know beans are so good and i like the different tastes of beans they are surely better than white flour products.

  16. I thought the idea of cancer being relatively new was interesting, so I searched for the history of cancer. First result from CANCER.ORG no less, literally talks about breast tumors in a 5000+ year old Egyptian textbook. What? Did I just listen to a blatant lie on this podcast??

  17. I've been eating this way , mostly, for over two years now, and been finding many health benefits. But, my further analysis is this. What is most important? Getting a few extra years to live, or preparing for life beyond death? What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, but loose his soul? The Bible teaches that it is appointed unto man once to die, and after that the judgement. We think we are good people, the Bible says we are all bad, there is none righteous, no not one. Our good works are filthy to God. Jesus, by the mercy of God, came to earth, died for our sins, was buried, and rose again. We sinned, and Jesus paid our fine. The Judge can let us continue to live, in heaven, because we repented (turned from our sin), and put our trust solely in Jesus for salvation. We can not ever be good enough for heaven on our own. When Jesus hung on the cross, He said, It is finished, meaning, the debt has been paid. Those who want to go to heaven, must put their trust in the work of Jesus, the Son of God, He is the only Way to heaven. (from John 14:6).
    God made our bodies so we can heal ourselves, if we are wise enough, but we all grow older, and will die someday. Jesus can heal our soul, so we can be reconciled with God. God is Good, so evil must be punished, even our own sin. God is still a Good Judge, by attributing our sin to Jesus, and His Righteousness to us. The great exchange! Read the Bible, and may you find this helpful in your journey!

  18. I 💖 Dr. Fuhrman he is a true rebel helping the world. There is no financial gain in healthy people so he truly is my HERO. I love his message, his view, his drive and his work. Bless him 💖

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