Interview by David Webb, 3rd March 2010

This week KombatClinic.com has had the pleasure of interviewing yet another legend from the world of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu – Professor Vinicius Magalhães  – a fourth degree black belt under Carlos Gracie Jr. and the Gracie Barra Academy.

Professor Magalhães or “Draculino” as he is better known, is the head instructor of Gracie Barra Texas and the Gracie Barra Belo Horizonte Schools and amongst his students, you will find Mundial winners, Pan-Am champions, national BJJ champions, champion mixed martial artists and grapplers and a total of more than 78 BJJ Black Belts. Draculino began his martial arts training at the age of 7, where he began Judo.

Introduced to BJJ through a surfing friend he instantly fell in love with BJJ and is part of a very well-respected bunch of Jiu Jitsoka from the original Gracie Barra Academy counting the likes of Renzo, Ralph, Ryan, Rillion, Crolin and Carlos Gracie Jr. as well as other great BJJ athletes such as Helio Soneca and Roberto “Gordo” Correa as his contemporaries.

A runner-up at the very first Brazilian Jiu Jitsu World Championships in 1996, Draculino has the honour of being named as Royler Gracie’s toughest ever opponent – by Royler himself! Having trained under Jean-Jacques Machado until purple belt Draculino was awarded his black belt in BJJ by Carlos Gracie Jr. in 1995. Now based in Houston, TX. Draculino is now responsible for taking his very own team (Team Draculino Gracie Barra) to the world stage. It is a great honour to have Professor Magalhães on KombatClinic.com and I hope you enjoy our interview as much as I did.

Titles:

• 4-time Pan-Am Champion
• 2008 no gi Pan-Am Champion
• 2-times Brazilian national Champion
• 2-times Silver medalist at the World BJJ Championships
• Abu-Dhabi veteran

KombatClinic.com: Professor, thank you very much for your time in doing this interview, I know you are very busy with your school and your new online training project. Together with the other athletes that have appeared on the site it means a lot to me that you have taken time to share your thoughts on KombatClinic.com

Vinicius Magalhães: Thank you guys for the opportunity! My pleasure!

KC: I usually start by asking each interviewee to take us back to the beginning of their career and to explain their motivations to start training and also the route that got them where they are today. I just listened to the superb interview you recently gave to the Fightworks Podcast team (fightworks podcast #199) and for fear of repeating much of what as said in that particular article I’d like to flip this question a little if I may?

VM: Sure, Go ahead.

KC: In your interview you mention some pretty famous BJJ guys in the Machado brothers, Renzo, Rillion, Crolin, Ryan and Ralph [Gracie] and also Helio Soneca and Roberto “Gordo” Correia. But are there any guys for whom you remember way back from the 1980’s and 90’s that were rolling on the tatami that are no longer around? From my own point of view I remember kids being in teams alongside me that showed great promise and were way ahead of me in terms of skill at say soccer, Rugby and indeed the martial arts that never really realised their full potential in training or competition. Are there any names you would care to mention here that you remember being exceptionally good and for some reason simply never continued along the same path as you in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?

VM: Man, a bunch! I remember this kid named Robson. He was so good in all the areas. He beat a kid one time that beat Ralph on the same tournament on the semi-finals. He was complete in all areas and a super nice guy. All of a sudden, he said that needed to follow a Navy career and since that day, we never heard about him again. Also, a funny fact, Cesar Gracie used to train there for almost six months by the time. He did not even speak Portuguese! He was living almost his entire life in San Francisco, CA. because his Mom used to work at the Brazilian Consulate there. He was a strong guy and learned so fast! Now he is everywhere!

KC: In that same interview at the Fightworks Podcast you discuss the fact that you were part of the core of BJJ athletes that attended and fought on the very first BJJ World Championships back in 1996. We know that you fought Royler [Gracie] in the final of your weight category and with that in mind he probably ranks as one of your toughest competitors, but who else registers with you as someone you either enjoyed competing against or had a healthy competitive rivalry with?

VM: Royler always says in all his interviews that I am one of the best competitors that he ever competed against. It means a lot to me because he is a legend and maybe the best competitor ever. He dominated 3 generations of fighters. We had great battles in two finals and one semi-final of the world championships.

Speaking about other competitors that I’ve faced, there were so many great names that it is hard to name all. Some really well known are Wagney Fabiano (WEC fighter and IFL feather weight champion), Fredson Alves, Marcus Parrumpinha (BJJ world Champion, undefeated in MMA and head coach of ATT), Eduardo Jamelao (World Champion), Joao Roque (World Champion and UFC Veteran), Fernando Yamazaki (Olympian in Judo and Wrestler), Hayato Sakurai (MMA star) and the list goes on and on. I don’t even remember now but some real great athletes.

KC: Even back then [mid to late 1990’s] there appeared to be a fierce rivalry between your team – Gracie Barra and team Alliance, as both are always placed either first or second as World team champions. I have interviewed both professor Fabio Gurgel and Rubens “Cobrinha” Charles from team Alliance on KombatClinic.com before and whilst athletes from each respective team have obvious allegiances and a dedicated passion for their team it is clear that there is also a mutual respect for what each other’s teams have achieved over the years, would you agree with that comment?

VM: Completely agreed! Fabio is a great person and a friend. In fact, we trained together back in the late 80”s when the late Marcelo Bering (Rickson Gracie Top student of all times) gathered us for a session of BJJ and Vale Tudo. Fabio is awesome and Gracie Barra and Alliance has roots that come from Rolls Gracie, one of the BJJ icons. So both teams has the best technical level and a great amount of talented people. We kill each other on the mats but the rivalry stays there!

KC: Staying on the topic of Gracie Barra, I have heard many interviews with guys from your team and all are unanimous with their anecdotes of Master Carlos Gracie Jr. and how he has shaped not only their Jiu Jitsu but also has played an enormous role in developing them as a individual. Would you care to share your own thoughts on the subject, as I know you have a very close relationship with ‘Carlinhos’ and the whole Gracie Barra family/team mentality?

VM: Carlinhos is a mentor and second father to me. We have a great relationship since the Blue Belt and he always had great attention and care with me. His guidance was not only in BJJ or fighting but also mainly in life. He has a low profile persona but has a strong spirit and has a great sense of solving problems in all areas. He is able to gather everyone, sometimes people with personal problems with each other, and make them work for a good cause. We have this status in BJJ nowadays just because of him. If it wasn’t for him, I would not have my profession and BJJ would still be confined on the south part of the city of Rio de Janeiro.

KC: Through reading Kid Peligro’s book: “the Gracie Way”, Master Carlos comes across as a charismatic and amiable guy yet very methodical, precise and business-like both in his business life and also on the mat during training is this a true assumption of the man at the helm of one of the worlds biggest Brazilian Jiu Jitsu associations?

VM: Master Carlos is fair but strategist. He likes to have relationships of win/win. This in Business and in life. His closest associates are happy to be on his side. Of course we are all humans and there are things here and there that are not completely agreeable, but his personality always tends to show you the big picture and the common good.

He is still an unbelievable fighter and one of the most precise and technical persons that I have ever shared the mats and learned from. When he mounts on you, it is over!

KC: ‘Organised like a team, fight like a family’. This is the maxim that Gracie Barra lives and trains by. I understand that the organisation of Gracie Barra instructors is addressed at regular intervals with various scheduled training sessions being devoted to the exchanging of ideas on the development of Gracie Barra both technically and from a business sense. Could you tell us a little bit more about these sessions/meetings and whom we could expect to envisage on the mats or in active discussions?

VM: They are really valuable. It helps a lot of people in the beginning of their careers on saving time and not learn by the mistakes. It is a short cut to success. I really enjoy these meetings and Marcio Feitosa and Flavio Almeida (master Carlos Right hands) are really open to share ideas and to listen also.

KC: Going back to BJJ competition, who, if anyone, really impresses you as a top-level athlete in BJJ at present? And have you any guys coming out of your Houston facility that we should look out for in the not too distant future (apart from the champions you have already produced such as: Albert Crane, Romulo Barral and Marcelo Azevedo)

VM: Apart from these guys, there is a student of mine who was world champion in the brown belt and now competes on the Black Belt Medium weight called Augusto Vieira, nickname “Tio Chico”, who could not even do jumping jacks and still cannot ride the bike! The less talented kid I have ever trained but, through dedication and perseverance, now I think he is on the line to be a world champion. Pay attention to him! From Texas, we have full house! School is packed and full of great kids and adults. We have some young guns here that are already local and regional champions. We have a girl here, Kristen Sommers, that is already 40 something, that wins everything in the region, got 3^rd place at the worlds in 2008, 3^rd at the Pan-Ams and won the American nationals, all in the adult division. My son Igor is beginning to compete now and dedicating a lot. I am sure that he will make waves soon also.

KC: I believe the Gracie Barra America headquarters were opened in 2005. Do you know if the choice of settling in Irvine, CA was based upon the fact that so many other academies, associations and instructors are also based in California (San Diego in particular) and do you think Gracie Barra America has achieved everything you set out to achieve in what is 5 years of operation?

VM: I think that California is the pole of BJJ in America and that is why the Headquarters is there. About the success that Gracie Barra has in the last 5 years, I knew that it would happen. The directors are competent and smart.

KC: What provoked your decision to open Gracie Barra (Team Draculino) in Houston, Texas?

VM: Texas is a place that I’ve been coming to teach Seminars since 2000. Then I have lots of students, friends and business associates. I always felt that here in Texas, there was lots of space and market not a lot of qualified people to work. Also, it is a central State, close to everything. It was what I needed to decide. I have received lots of proposals to come to the US for other spots but I preferred to stay in Brazil, build my team until it did not need me in a daily basis, and then have my GB school, under the GB association.

KC: Gracie Barra has a huge presence in the United States that continues right across the country. North, South, East and West seems to be covered, Europe and the UK also have numerous GB academies. Do you know if there are plans to expand the Gracie Barra ‘brand’ further into Asia, especially with areas such as China expanding so fast?

VM: They are already working on that and if I am not mistaken, besides Japan, where GB has several schools including one of my students, China and Korea also have one. It is the tip of the iceberg there!

KC: I know a lot of guys who have made the trip over to Rio to train at Gracie Barra and who now make it an annual pilgrimage to train in Brazil. Do you get as many foreign Jiu Jitsoka’s arriving in Houston, TX or would you say that Rio is still the choice for people looking to train with Gracie Barra away from their regular gym?

VM: Rio is the Mecca of BJJ. It is a mandatory trip for any serious BJJ person. However, some of the best coaches are here in the USA and if you go to a GB school, you will be having the same content as going to Brazil. The only difference is the atmosphere, the climate and the food, that is better than here in the USA J.

KC: Congratulations on the success of your new online training project, I looks fantastic! You mentioned a while back that with the invention of the Internet the world has become a much ‘smaller’ place. Are you getting many people from abroad signing up to you online training website?

VM: Yes. From all over the world. So far, the feedback is phenomenal! I am so happy that this project that me and my student and partner Justin Anderson are putting is helping a lot of students all over but also helping instructors that need material and curriculum to teach. Nothing substitute time on the mat and hard training but this website, with no false modesty, is the best supplementary technical form of training that you can have and also a life saviour for a instructor that cannot be close to a great professor and have to teach a group of people.

KC: On a recent post to your blog you spoke of “Aeroplane Black Belts” or those that simply left Brazil in the 1990’s, to exploit BJJ’s popularity in the US, as blue belts only to land in the United States as proposed ‘black belts’ in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I believe this happens a lot in many martial arts and combat rituals as people jump on the bandwagon of the newest craze.

VM: It is sad but true.but this people are cheating not just the art and their students, but also their selves…They will always have that skeleton in the closet and have to look at the mirror everyday knowing that they are cheaters and will never have what it takes to be a true martial artist.

KC: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a very proud art, plain and simple. The whole mano-e-mano philosophy that emulates from true Jiu Jitsoka is what really sets it apart from other arts (the willingness to prove its effectiveness). As BJJ becomes more a more popular and black belts become larger in number across the world can you see this changing? Do you foresee BJJ becoming “watered down” and in your opinion has the want to preserve BJJ’s heritage and ‘fire’ changed from when you first started training, especially as its popularity has grown so enormously?

VM: It is a collateral aspect of every growth. We have to be really careful on preserve the values, the honour and the warrior spirit of our Masters and Grand Masters and understand that our actions can have severe consequences on the years to come. I have my moral code and live by that. I face my work and our art as the most serious business on earth and will hold this flag, on the good and the bad, will fight for that flag and if needed, die for this flag. Cheaters of the art: watch out!

KC: I have heard/read a few interviews lately with individuals [from Brazil, now living outside of Brazil] insinuating that fighters/competitors prefer to train No-Gi (especially in the US). Firstly, have you noticed this in the class uptake of Gi vs. No-Gi and secondly, do you think this is a reflection that many high level ADCC competitors and champions are now based outside of Brazil?

VM: A lot of people say that, but once they begin to train and understand the importance of the Gi on the refining of the whole technical game, people train more with the GI. No-Gi is fun, great and essential, but a solid background on the Gi is necessary. Who are the best grapplers and even MMA fighter in the world? Guys with Gi background – all of them.  At my school, as it is a new team, we train Gi 4 times more that no-Gi. And even the ones that did not agree with that now are believers.

KC: Finally, I asked this very same question to professor Gurgel in his interview and would love your take also; both Gracie Barra and Alliance Jiu Jitsu have been the two most dominant and successful BJJ academies in the history of the sport. We have already established that Gracie Barra has a fantastic support network of instructors and academies but do you have a personal philosophy for producing brilliant Jiu Jitsu generation after generation and do you have a specific way of nurturing talent when teaching BJJ that brings the best in athletes?

VM: I am blessed on having the opportunity to be the mentor of numerous world champions. And this goes on since 1998. There is not one year that you don’t see a student of mine on the first place podium, so I think that our philosophy, and also the GB one is that each generation has to be better than the previous. My son has to be better than me, my grandson better than both of us. Only like that, we will keep the art evolving. I teach everything that I know to my students and sincerely want them to be better than me. And I achieved that.

KC: Professor, thank you so much for taking time to talk with KombatClinic.com today. Do you have anything else you would like to mention that we have not covered in this interview or anyone you would like to thank specifically?

VM: Thank you so much for the space. I want to give you guys beginning in BJJ an advice: don’t fall for that crap talk coming from wanna be’s and market internet warriors that what the Masters from Brazil say is old dated and that they know better. Look at this people: who are they? Who have they produced? What legacy they are leaving behind? Look at history, look at facts and they be part of the true legacy!

KC: Thanks again for a great interview Draculino!

Possible links:

Draculino Online BJJ training
Gracie Barra Texas
Gracie Barra Belo Horizonte, Brazil

Responsible for taking Gracie Jiu Jitsu to the East coast of the United States (in particular Philadelphia and Atlantic City) Steve has been responsible for starting many Jiu Jitsu careers including those of the Phil and Ricardo Migliarese and Jerod Weiner [Lloyd Irvin affiliate]. A Pan-Am Champion at Purple and Brown belt and an International BJJ Master-Seniors Champion in his own right Steve continues to train BJJ and now runs a Gracie Jiu Jitsu programme in Port Townsend, WA.

In this interview with KombatClinic.com Steve talks candidly about his background in the martial arts and fitness industry and well as his relationships with many of the Gracie family, including Helio, Relson, Royler and both Saulo and Xande Ribeiro, he also discusses the recent emergence of his son Zak to the eyes of World Jiu Jitsu and shares some of his own views of Jiu Jitsu and the way things are progressing in our sport.

Enjoy!

By David Webb, 05 February 2010

Interview:

KombatClinic.com: Hi Steve, thanks for taking time out to give our readers this interview. You have a very extended background in training per se, which includes conditioning some quite high profile athletes from most sports [including Brazilian Jiu Jitsu] and you were also one of the first American guys to become involved with BJJ. For those readers that don’t know too much about Steve Maxwell could you give us a brief background to how you started BJJ and how you got to where you are today?

Steve Maxwell: My dad, a former navy boxer, taught my brother and I how to throw down in early grade school. We lived in a rural development with a lot of kids in the neighborhood and fights were not at all uncommon. I didn’t really like boxing and–when getting the worst of it–I’d get mad, tear the gloves off and take my opponent to the ground. I was small and weak for my age and so became a subject of interest to the local bullies and playground toughs. One kid in particular seemed delighted in making my life miserable.

My dad decided to toughen me up. He bought me a barbell set for my eleventh birthday and took me down to the famous York  Barbell Club (at the time, the mecca of Olympic weightlifting in the US) to watch the all-time greats working out. My dad also enrolled me in my school’s wrestling program.  I took to wrestling like an otter to water–I had a real knack for it. All the pudge burned off my waist and I turned lean, chiseled and strong. With this, my confidence grew and all those bullies who had caused me so much anxiety before got their comeuppances–one after the other–in a series of dramatic after-school showdowns. Despite being on the  small side, I was now one of the strongest kids at school and no one wanted to mess with me. 

These early life lessons helped me a lot later. I continued wrestling all the way through Division 1 NCAA and, later, in the US Army.  After my wrestling career was up, I  was  left searching for something to fill the void–what do you go with wrestling skills after college? I trained in other martial arts–Kung fu, Marate, Muay Thai and Kenpo–but they left me unfulfilled; I was a grappler at heart.

I discovered Gracie Jiujitsu in the late 1980’s when I was basically dragged by a friend to their first seminar on the east coast. I was really impressed and realized that this  was what I had been seeking. I made many trips from Philly out to the Torrance, CA. academy and then I’d come back and train with my friends, showing them everything I’d learned. A year later, I opened the first Gracie jiujitsu training association and–the first BJJ school on the eastern seaboard. The Gracies thanked me for bringing their jiujitsu to the east coast. For many years, I trained daily at my school, Maxercise. I also trained with all the sons of Helio Gracie, as well as Helio himself. I was very fortunate to have access to Master Helio. With Royce, I stayed as a guest at Helio’s country home for a month.  I also had opportunities to train with other high-level Gracie practitioners as well as the more distant Gracie family members. I was the first North American authorized to teach Gracie jiujitsu by the family. Later, the Gracie family went through some upheavals and split-ups. The brothers went their separate ways and I stayed with Relson, Helio’s second son, earning a black belt in 2000, in Honolulu. I was Relson’s first North American black belt.

My gym, Maxercise, was a training hub and destination in those early days. We were the only school around and people traveled from all over to train with us.   Thus I began hosting frequent Gracie seminars in Philadelphia and Atlantic City.  

KombatClinic.com: And are you currently actively involved in teaching? And if so, where are based right now? 

SM: I recently moved to Port Townsend, WA where I’ve started up a Gracie jiujitsu program at the Port Townsend Athletic Club, teaching three public classes a week and limited privates.

KombatClinic.com: With wrestling from a young age and progressing to a Division 1 NCAA wrestler was there an immediate crossover in learning BJJ or was it hard to remove the wrestlers mentality of not allowing your back to the mat and the constant competitiveness that is so akin to wrestlers at that level?

SM: My wrestling skills easily transferred to jiujitsu but still, initially I had to make some adjustments and change my way of thinking. Not using excessive strength was the hardest lesson to learn. 

KombatClinic.com: Was there much of a reaction amongst your peers from wrestling when you became immersed in Jiu Jitsu? Were they inquisitive about following you to see what this new system entailed or would you say they were far more dismissive after the years of wrestling?

SM: Wrestlers–as a general rule–are a hard headed lot. Because their training is so tough and they’re in such great shape, they tend to be formidable. If they’ve had success fighting, they think they already know everything they need to know.  The first time they roll with a good jiujitsu man, a wrestler is typically shocked. He’ll then either be sold on learning jiujitsu, or disappear.

KombatClinic.com: I read an interview with you recently where you speak of first becoming involved with Rorian [Gracie] at his Torrance Academy and literally having to travel from Philadelphia and stay over for weeks at a time before returning with new techniques to drill and teach. Were there any other guys doing the same back then, trying to learn from the Gracie’s to take back to their respective parts of the US and are that are still involved with BJJ to the same degree as you are today?

SM: I’m sure there are, but I’ve lost touch with everyone from those days. While many started out on the long, hard road of earning a black belt from the Gracies, many fell along the wayside and few made it. The Gracies set such a high standard for teaching excellence and I saw my peers becoming frustrated and disillusioned.  A lot of the early guys were good practitioners, but poor teachers. The Gracies placed a high value on the ability to teach. Effective teaching is a rare talent.

KombatClinic.com: In the same interview you speak of some differences of opinion, shall we say, between many of the Gracie’s? This extended into different factions of the family branching off in their own way to develop the system of BJJ, some with a passion for the sport whilst others stuck with the self-defence attitude. At this point what was it that appealed to you more about following Relson as opposed to staying under the tutelage of Rorian and his Torrance Academy?

SM: My decision to stay with Relson was for personal reasons; Rorion actually had a great self defense program and was the superior teacher. 

KombatClinic.com: Do you still have any affiliation to Relson Gracie and or the Gracie’s as a whole?

SM: I no longer have any direct affiliation with the Gracies. I am friendly with Royler and I recently trained him in kettlebells when I was in San Diego. Rickson’s son, Kron, also participated in some of my group conditioning circuits in prep for the BJJ Worlds and ADCC.

KombatClinic.com: I read that having stayed true to the more self-defence orientated Jiu Jitsu philosophy with Relson that your sport Jiu Jitsu game never really took off until you started working with Saulo and Alexandre Ribeiro and that you feel you missed the ‘half-guard’ revolution almost entirely. Having seen how much BJJ has changed in terms of innovative techniques since you started (X-guard, rubber guard, 50/50 guard, and so on), in terms of strategies and positions how much further can you see the athletes of today taking BJJ? Or are you more of the inclination that Jiu Jitsu will almost come full-circle and return to the more simplistic methods of winning, much in the same way that Roger Gracie seems to do so effortlessly?

SM: That’s not entirely true, that my sports game didn’t take off.  As a purple belt, I won the Pan Ams, and again as a brown belt.  I also won the International Master-Seniors as a brown belt–twice!  All using my basic Gracie jiu jitsu skills.  It was when I started training at Saulo’s Heavy Duty Gym in Copacabana that I first became aware of this whole other side of sports jiu jitsu.

And it wasn’t Saulo and Xande that made me good–although they did work with me.  I give that credit to Regis Lebre, Saulo’s first black belt. Regis was a turning point in my jiujitsu education. I was very impressed with his teaching and coaching skills; he taught me the modern sport jiujitsu game very well.  He’s a world-class competitor, but he an even better coach and teacher. I brought him up from Brazil to help me run Maxercise and worked with me in Philly for many years. He’s still my son’s coach. Roger Gracie has certainly proven that old-school Gracie Jiujitsu-101 works even at the world class level. He doesn’t use anything that any blue belt doesn’t know, but his timing, precision, set-ups and execution come from a lifetime of training. 

Not long ago I had a private lesson from Royler and he’s also very basic in his approach, also one of the all-time winning-est players out there.  The lesson?  We worked on the basic X-choke and scissors sweep. How’s that for basics? Here we have a what? 6- degree black belt giving a 3-degree black belt a lesson and it’s what–X-choke and scissors sweep.  And he was so effective with it, you wouldn’t even think about passing his guard, you’re just thinking about…surviving! Saulo and Xande also stick with the basics they learned from the Gracie family: solid foundational moves done to perfection–nothing fancy or complicated. 

For sure, the real stylistic BJJ guys don’t fare so well in the MMA world.  These non-basics/sports jiu jitsu guys are finding out that in real world combat they get killed. It’s good to know the slicker moves so you don’t get tricked, but once you understand them, they’re defeated pretty easily.

KombatClinic.com: Having been based in Philadelphia there are some great BJJ academies and athletes based there, if I am correct, with the Migliarese brothers’ balance studios, a Lloyd Irvin affiliate and Kenny and Keith Florian. Did you ever work with any of these guys?

SM: Anybody who’s anybody in jiu jitsu in Philadelphia and the tri-state area of PA, NJ and DE got their start at Maxercise, with some few exceptions.  The Florians are up in Boston. I got the Migliarese brothers started when they just kids. I actually paid for Phil Migliarese to attend the Gracie teacher training program. Jared Weiner (the Lloyd Irvin affiliate) also has his roots at Maxercise. He was a teenage skateboard champ and wanted to learn self-defense.  

KombatClinic.com: I read a piece where you mentioned that [although there are some really great instructors out there] in your opinion the further you move away from the original Gracie source of Jiu Jitsu the weaker the art had become – almost watered down. You also mention that people are utilising the digital age more now, through DVD’s and the Internet to achieve belt rankings.

A while ago there were some controversial statements and discussions online between some very high profile Jiu Jitsu guys that just happened to be Gracie family members on the issue of such training/learning. I’m guessing you believe that it is always better to receive instruction first hand with a qualified instruction and that back in the old days, VHS was the best most people could get but what is your opinion on such ‘internet instruction’? Can it be good for BJJ or do you think that gradually the ‘watering down’ of Jiu Jitsu is just going to get worse?

SM: DVDs are not–and never will be–a substitute for training with a qualified “meat” instructor.  DVDs are certainly better than nothing, but training under the watchful eye of a qualified black belt is the best way. Without supervision, it’s so easy to build bad habits and mistakes into your game. DVDs provide a good supplement to live instruction and as useful guides for beginning instructors.

The watering down aspect comes from fake black belts not worthy of their rank. Because of the demand for qualified instructors, some dishonorable guys, in pursuit of money, promoted themselves to black belt (or were promoted by other, weak instructors) and set up schools.  In remote places without access to good jiu jitsu, a purple belt  is like a demi-god to a newbie. No one wants to train with a purple belt or brown belt if they have a black belt available. So these guys get their belts through dubious means to impress their students and make themselves seem to be more qualified than what they are. Actually these students under bogus instructors would be better off training with a really qualified, top level purple belt. You can tell pretty easily if the instructor is the real deal or not. His lineage can be easily traced through the federation. The fake guys rarely, if ever compete for fear of being exposed. When they do compete, they get trounced first round. Sometimes they make up fake titles, but a little research reveals the truth. The International BJJ federation keeps names and records of all the place winners, including the Brazilian national title holders. It seems like every Brazilian opening a school is a Brazilian national champion.

The other watering down aspect is the emphasis only on the sport of jiujitsu. The Gracie Self defense System is little known by even good black belts in the sportive side of jiujitsu. Helio Gracie developed a fantastic and very street effect self defense system designed to keep one safe against bigger, stronger and faster assailants. With the advent of MMA, many consider standing and slugging it out with kick boxing to be an effective stand up self defense. It’s not unless you’re an exceptional athlete or really big and strong. Even then, there is always the law suit and legal ramification aspect of breaking some ones jaw or knocking out teeth. It’s a good way to get beat up or killed. Helio’s stand up self defense is beautiful in it’s simplicity and effectiveness. It gives the option of treating an assailant in a humane manner without causing serious injury or causing serious damage. With punching and kicking, one doesn’t have that option. The punches and kicks either smash the guy or they don’t work.

KombatClinic.com: Cool. Let’s move onto the conditioning aspect a little more as many may recognise you more from your work in the exercise industry, especially through the modality of the Kettlebell. We had an interview with Josh Brown who is responsible for the conditioning of such athletes as Rubens “Cobrinha” Charles. I know you work with both Saulo and Xande Ribeiro but in your opinion how do Jiu Jitsu athletes compare to regular individuals or athletes from different sporting backgrounds in terms of their General Physical Preparedness and work ethic towards conditioning?

SM: Jiu jitsu training is very strenuous and energy consuming; grappling is a form of resistance training. You must be careful not to over do the volume and exhaust yourself.

All supplemental training needs to be carefully doled out, with constant monitoring for signs of over reaching and under-recovery. Conditioning training for jiujitsu is as much art as science. Because Jiujitsu is a year-round activity, there is no “off” season, nor is the conditioning required ever general–it is always specific. Balance is key. In jiu jitsu, the important thing isn’t necessarily the working muscles, but those muscles not working. It’s best to place the focus on injury prevention, over-use and otherwise.  This is the foundation of my conditioning system.

KombatClinic.com: Could you tell us how you became involved in using, teaching and producing certifications for exercise with the Kettlebell? I ask because you seem to have been around since the craze started.

SM: I was the very first man with the kettlebelI. I’ve always been the guy ahead of the curve because it is my nature to upset the status quo in seeking better ways of doing things.  From the beginning, my training  was geared toward better athletic performance as opposed to lifting in an effort to be good at lifting. For this reason, I eschewed power and Olympic weight lifting as unproductive for athletic achievement–ditto for bodybuilding and muscle spinning.

Kettlebell training was a natural for me. I was experimenting in my back yard with a set of home-made kettlebells before the trend hit.

After meeting Pavel [Ed. note: Pavel Tsatsouline] at the Arnold, I was invited as an instructor to the first RKC. I taught the first group kettlebell classes in the US and set up the first kettlebell gym. I’ve spent hundreds of hours in the group fitness classroom and tit’s given me the chance to experiment and form my ideas.

I enjoyed my time with the RKC but realized I had more to offer people and further, I didn’t want to represent anyone but myself.  After leaving, it occurred to me that my kettlebell experience was a real asset, especially in teaching group classes, and that it was time to offer my knowledge and experience to those who cared to learn from me. 

KombatClinic.com: What does your certification involve?

SM: My Maxbell teacher training level I certification is a two day training workshop. The time is spent perfecting the basic kettlebell movements and learning the basic steps in how to teach them to others. Much emphasis is placed on form, technique and safety. Classroom organization, workout construction and design and professional teaching skills are emphasized. I have had many former RKC I and II graduates attend my course and they felt that I filled in many gaps missing from their training. 

The level II course builds on the first one, with more emphasis on double kettlebell drills. Advanced workout concepts are introduced such as my metabolic pairs training, advanced circuit design and the kettlebell complex drills. Covered also is the preparation and conditioning of competitive athletes and how to set up programs.

I also teach a bodyweight exercise and a Joint Mobility certification. I go into detail on the proper alignment, efficiency and progressions of body weight exercise. I teach many unusual exercises and techniques. Students are always wowed and come away with a lot of practical information on how to implement, teach and combine body weight exercises with their current programs.

KombatClinic.com: I read in an interview that you a firm believer in having a tailored conditioning programme that is dependant on the vigour’s of the sport that you are involved (I think the example you used was working with Saulo Ribeiro just before his ADCC appearance in Sao Paulo) with the specifics in mind what are you opinions on more generalised exercise prescriptions and conditioning for BJJ and work such as the CrossFit programme? I ask because many grapplers are drawn to this philosophy of training due to its more functional movements when compared to many other types.

SM: Training is only functional if it makes you better at doing those particular activities in which you desire to excel.

Grappling requires a very specific conditioning system and working within a general/non-specific program, like CrossFit is wastes your valuable time, energy, and recovery on skills and activities that don’t improve your grappling game. CrossFit has no rhyme or reason to it. It’s seemingly random, based upon the whimsy of those posting the programs. For people who don’t play an actual sport, I suppose CrossFit can serve some psychological or motivational purpose, but making your workout a competition, trying to beat an arbitrary time or rep number is simply not intelligent training.

Grappling and combat sports are the ultimate competition. All other competitions pale in comparison to stepping into a ring or mat to commence mano e mano combat–and anyone who says differently has never fought. In this sport, training must be purposeful in addressing a specific need or strengthening a specific weakness. I am not at all against training as a generalist; that is, not training specifically to be great at any one activity, but becoming good at many things.

Yet excellence requires specificity and grappling in particular is a demanding lover who won’t tolerate stepping out. 

KombatClinic.com: If you were asked to choose one modality for grappling conditioning, which would it be? I’m guessing the Kettlebell and if so, why?

SM: Well, you guessed wrong! (Ed. note: Whoops!)

Bodyweight training is the way to go, people have known this for more than 2000 years. I’m talking about body weight in all its forms, from yoga to strength work on gymnastic apparatus; there is no reason to chose only one modality. Why limit yourself? Nothing is ever so simple, yet neither should it be overly complicated. I use kettlebells, clubbells, macebells, Bulgarian bags, sandbags, heavy rocks, logs, gymnastic apparatus, climbing ropes and even dumbbells and barbells should the situation call for it. Mastery comes with knowing which tool for which purpose and why and how to use it.

KombatClinic.com: Your son, Zak Maxwell, is currently the 2009 Mundials champion at Brown belt (featherweight) and has just won the (Brown belt) Gracie Worlds Absolute crown in LA where he submitted all of five his opponents that must be an immensely proud feeling. Fighting for Gracie Humaitá, does that mean he is based at the University of Jiu Jitsu under the Ribeiro’s or somewhere else?

SM: Zak has trained since being in diapers. He was training before he had cognition he was training. Besides the world title you mentioned, he’s also the current Pan American champ and US Open Weight National Champ. He recently opened his own school in Philadelphia with black belt Brian Rago, where he’s based, but travels to San Diego now and again to prep with Regis Lebre.  He is affiliated with Royler Gracie and Gracie Humaita. (There was a split from the Ribeiro’s)

KombatClinic.com: Were you at both events to see his victory’s?

SM: I’ve missed the last couple of events due to travel and seminars. We keep in close contact and I always get the blow-by-blow first-hand account. 

KombatClinic.com: Do you have any capacity in helping Zak prepare for competitions, I mean in terms of conditioning knowledge?

SM: Zak trained in my system from the time he was in pre-school. He’s a poster boy for the type of specific grappling conditioning I represent.

At this point, if Zak asks me for support I offer what I can.  If he needs any supplemental training, he talks to me about it.  My partner, Teresa, and I have helped him with his nutrition and weight control in prepping for tournaments–t’s not easy to cut 3-4 pounds of weight before a fight when you’re ripped!  At least in a way that isn’t detrimental to performance.  Teresa is extremely knowledgeable on the subject. It’s the best scenario: from the time he’s spent with me, Zak’s learned how to optimally condition himself.

KombatClinic.com: Steve, many thanks for your time in giving us this interview but before we wrap up are there any individuals you would like to acknowledge that you have worked with over the years and have you any message for any aspiring Jiu Jitsoka or strength and conditioning student?

SM: I’m grateful to my partner Teresa, for her support and without whom I wouldn’t be able to do many of the things that I do. I’m feeling appreciative of Gudjon Swannson at Kettlebells Iceland and John DiSimone at Maxercise for their efforts on my upcoming seminars. For jiujitsu, I thank Master Helio Gracie, his sons, and also Regis Lebre for his great teaching.

Anyone wishing to learn my kettlebell system and body weight training, check out the events page on my website MaxwellSC.com

I’m traveling a lot this spring and summer and I love meeting people and training! No matter what level you are, you can always get better; the key is consistency and dedication.  Look at this as a lifelong trek:  there is no ultimate destination, perfected form or technique.  What I want to tell you guys is to enjoy the journey–don’t be in such a rush!  Most guys are in such a hurry to get their black belt but why?  You get your black belt and it’s just like starting all over again! 

KombatClinic.com: Thanks Steve!

Possible links:
Steve Maxwell Website
Steve’s upcoming events & seminars

Roy Dean, in his DVD ‘Brazilian Jiu Jitsu: Purple belt requirements’, spoke of depth of knowledge versus breadth of knowledge and encouraged that rather than attempting to assimilate and amass numerous skill sets, to look deeper and understand the concepts and principles that underpin each skill. In the same vein BJJ Black belt Roy Harris has warned not to become a “collector of techniques” or someone more infatuated with developing flair than actually being able to use basic fundamental skills in ‘live’ randori.

If any of you have read any of the fantastic work by Malcolm Gladwell – in particular ‘Blink’, where he discusses subconscious, rapid cognition and ‘thin-slicing’ of events, this essentially is it in practice during live randori. Too much information simply hampers the reactions and fluidity of a prescribed solution. Concept driven skill integration and intelligent use of model’s such as Matt Thornton’s I-paradigm (introduction, isolation, integration) will take the performer further along the path of cognitive realisation and ultimately make them a more formidable athlete on the mat.

“Principle concepts”

A concept can be defined as “a general idea derived or inferred from specific instances or occurrences. Something formed in the mind; a thought or notion.” A principle, on the other hand, is simply defined as “an accepted or professed rule of action.” With this in mind Judo and Jiu Jitsu are two sports that are made up entirely of concepts and principles, experience has taught us that if we put these “principle concepts” into action we have a far greater chance of success.

Introducing, isolating and integrating principle concepts in training are particularly useful for teaching children and or total beginners, if you have a skill that lasts for 7-10 movements (this could be anything from a standing guard pass to a set up for a double leg takedown to a single leg and back again to a ‘cherry tree’ double leg or even a simple footwork drill during a stand up exchange) the child/trainee is far more capable of achieving success if they constantly think about sticking to the underlying “principle concept” in a position as opposed to which move follows another. In essence they have far less to forget by applying a basic concept in all areas of that skill than remembering the order of 7-10 successive techniques.

Conversely more intermediate and advanced trainees that come from a completely different strata of the combat athletics world should indeed be able to progress faster as these “principle concepts” remain true across all boundaries of style, affiliation and or ignornace. Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Submission Wrestling, Muay Thai, Karate are all but words to communicate and create a sense of belonging to ones ‘tribe’, if we were to strip back to the bare essentials of each approach the “principle concepts” should be exactly the same.

The centre-line hypothesis is one such concept that is often overlooked and or not explained fully; part one of this article will attempt to look at elements of the centre-line hypothesis and how it relates to stand-up exchanges and in particular striking and the clinch. I understand that KombatClinic.com is essentially devoted to grappling, Judo and Jiu Jitsu in particular, and many readers only log on for that reason, but I feel it important to open the hypothesis and demonstrate how the same “principle concepts” transfer and underpin all combat athletics thought processes regardless of juncture or end goal.

Defining The “centre-line”

As humans we have three main anatomical “centre-lines” or planes of motion: the Sagittal plane, the Frontal [Lateral] plane and the Transverse plane along which ALL mechanical function and bodily processes are derived, driven and created and which contain our centre of mass/gravity and moment of inertia. Indeed these planes can be sub-divided and split further, especially at the shoulder and hip joint (I’ll leave that for part two).

Sagital plane: movements both front and back.
Lateral plane: movements side to side.
Transverse plane: rotational movements.

It is important to know and understand these conceptual centres so we can construct a training matrix for ourselves and or others that involve exercises and drill in all planes of motion especially with a 360-degree modality such as Judo or Jiu Jitsu.

Stand up (striking) in attack

If you were to think about it, the protocol of all striking skill sets, when taught correctly, is primarily to bear [clinical] trauma to the opponents anatomical centre line. Whether this is in the form a direct/linear motion such as a jab, cross or front Teep as in Muay Thai or a more ‘circular’, rounded attack such as round kicks (high, mid and low-line) or elbows. If the centre line cannot be attacked successfully (whether due to distancing issues, telegraphed movements, counter defence and attacks or the blocks and parries from an opponent) the secondary goal is to induce pressure at the extremities (destructions or ‘Gunting’s’ in Filipino Panantukan) before returning once again to the anatomical centre line – think of it as a two-tier objective.

Stand up (striking) in defence

If our primary objective as an attacker is to seek a clinical conclusion through striking our opponents centre line, then in defence we must assume that our opponent is intelligent enough to be attempting the same aim. With that in mind we need to harness as much pre-thought as possible to covering our centre line, inclusive of the mandible (jaw), solar plexus and groin (if that is your bag) and develop non-habitual movement and inconceivable rhythm – an example from a personal standpoint, is to be mindful to stay within ‘the pocket’ and to circle to my right (behind my jab) and outside of my opponents [orthodox] lead left foot (for those so inclined to look deeper at this example should refer to Frank Trigg’s trigonometry 101 & 102 series). Not only does this keep me away from his power punch – right cross – but also places my centre line ‘offline’ and in turn suppresses any subconscious urge to launch an attack on his behalf.

But how does this apply to the world of grappling? Before I continue I must admit that my area, so to speak, is not Jiu Jitsu and in terms of grappling I have far more experience in no-Gi wrestling and Judo. KombatClinic.com is my selfish attempt to get to chat to people in the know about a commodity of concepts or theorised expression that I have fallen in love with – Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Let’s look at ways and means to attack and defend the centre line in vertical grappling, I’ll save horizontal (ne waza) for part two.

Vertical grappling (control in the clinch)

Once distance close down has been established, through desire or response, the issue of clinical striking at the centre is still apparent however the issue of control at the centre is far more prevalent than before, under hooks, collar tie’s and head control become concerning factors. 

Think about it like this, the performance of any forceful skill is derived through the origin of a muscle and continues across the movable parts of its accompanying joint to its insertion, however the basis and source of this energy is the body’s centre – every time. By the same token the body’s centre is extremely important if we consider leverage, as mechanical leverage within the body is increased as we move closer to the centre.

For example: we are far more comfortable holding a weight to our chest than we are at arms length and we have the potential to generate far more torque with an elbow strike than a punch and in the same vein with a knee strike when compared to a kick – simply because the elbow and knee are closer to our centre line. Therefore, in the clinch we must seek to gain control of our opponent at the centreline and in doing so we ensure greater control per se. A good example of this is why we have the pummelling drill. This repetitive drill develops motor pathways and responses so the performer, when in the clinch, immediately seeks an underhook as second nature. The comparable benefits in attack at the clinch in using an underhook is negligible but where control is the deciding factor the underhook wins hands down. The same could be said of the paradox for finding the ‘plum’ position in Muay Thai – no fighter wants to be on the outside of the plum ‘eating knees’ through the centre…

Vertical grappling (throwing from the clinch)

In order for a high percentage success in throwing an opponent O’Sensei Jigori Kano, the founder of Judo, suggested a four-phased paradigm: off balancing of the opponent (kuzushi); body positioning, (tsukuri); execution (kake) and (kime) focus. Imagine looking directly down at your Uke during a Judo or Jiu Jitsu bout, they have eight directions to be thrown: Mae (front), Ushiro (back), Hidari (left), Migi (right) and, of course, the four diagonals. The control in the clinch we spoke of earlier now needs harnessing. We as Tori (the initiator) need to utilise our Kawashi and Kuzushi to retrieve a reaction to our initial action, break the balance and throw.

Gripping (Kumikata) and understanding grips is an essential part of any Gi grappler’s game – you have no game without it and two examples of Judoka with phenomenal gripping knowledge are Neil Adams MBE and US Judoka Jimmy Pedro. 

Olympian Rhadi Ferguson and his ‘bullet and the gun’ hypothesis suggests we should think of throwing as bullets, these bullets can only be fired (executed) through the use of a certain gun (our grip); hence correct grips go hand in hand with the resultant throw and we have an abundance of gripping strategies and tactics to control and manipulate our Uke in a variety of ways. Nevertheless, it is not as simple as that remember we have an opponent of a similar weight and height that too is attempting to throw, pin and submit us. This is why we must endeavour to understand and drill the “principle concepts” that underpin our game from the centre-line hypothesis, travel and weight transfer, head carriage and positioning, selective tension, the list is endless…

Throwing is all about lines, symmetry and alignment. The alignment of your hips, correct symmetrical footwork and even the positioning of your head for the required place of landing. Working the ‘centreline hypothesis’ in throwing concerns moving the opponent along one of the eight direction ‘balance lines’ we spoke of earlier – producing action and gaining reaction. A persons balance is governed by the relative line created between their centre of gravity and their head, if the head extends too far forward, backwards, to either side or the diagonals and the centre of gravity is not able to ‘catch-up’ and correct the equilibrium through kinaesthesis or proprioception then balance is lost and our opponent will fall or be thrown. By now you should realise how important thinking and appreciating the centre-line is in all aspects of combat.

Summary

Principle concepts such as the centre-line hypothesis stretch right across all combat athletics modes of learning. A deeper understanding and a cognitive appreciation of the centre-line, in defence and attack, should aid progression in all areas from striking to grappling but there must be a conscious effort to utilise the centre-line in all parts of your game. Use its strength at points where leverage is required, cover it during stand-up work, do not over extend on one of the eight directional ‘balance-lines’ and ultimately exploit it when it is at its most vulnerable.

Part two: The centre-line in horizontal grappling coming soon. Thanks for your time, comments welcomed.

Hey guys,

I thought I’d upload this brief post as it something we are doing at my academy with all the members and thought it might be cool to get some of the readers on board as well – it’s all about the participation!

Here is the challenge: February 2010 – 28 days or 4 weeks (depending on how pedantic you are). For those 28 days we want to create a recorded log of exercise for the entire month from all the readers here on KombatClinic.com. CrossFit WOD’s, Ginastica Natural, Speed/Agility/Quickness sessions, Cardio work, Anaerobic threshold, Flexibility sessions, Strength or simple BJJ and Judo… whatever your protocol… whatever Mesocycle you’re currently working through, let’s hear it!!!

Here is what to do:
1). Join either the KombatClinic.com facebook group by clicking here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=212254025067 or become a fan of KombatClinic.com, again on facebook by clicking here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/KombatCliniccom/268843459355 or join both ;o)

2). Find the discussions tab on each ‘community’ and share your workouts with us all under “4 Weeks of Fitness 4 February”… that’s all there is to it! “4 Weeks of Fitness 4 February” guys, it’s that simple!

All the best,
Dave

by David Webb, 28th January 2010

Luis “Limao” Heredia is one of a select few. Head Coach at Maui Jiu Jitsu in Hawaii he started Jiu Jitsu aged 14 in his native Brazil, soon afterwards he was granted access to THE most famous of martial arts legacies – the Gracie’s, a student under Master Helio Gracie and his sons, Rickson and Royler his skills were honed on the mats of the famous Gracie Humaita school until he was invited by Rickson to travel to the United States to help spread the word of Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

As the first purple belt in Gracie Jiu Jitsu to set foot on US soil ‘Limao’ helped spread the Gracie tradition across the US and also Japan alongside his instructor, mentor and friend Master Rickson Gracie. Now a highly regarded master of Jiu Jitsu in his own right he is highly respected and sought after coach the world over. It is a pleasure to have Luis Heredia on KombatClinic.com, I hope you enjoy his interview where he shares his experiences of Jiu Jitsu and what it means to be recognised as a Rickson Gracie black belt and part of the worlds fastest growing sport.

Interview:

KombatClinic.com: Luis, many thanks for agreeing to share your views and knowledge of Jiu Jitsu with us on KombatClinic.com, many of our readers will be very aware of who you are and what you have contributed to Jiu Jitsu over the years especially in the United States but could we start with a little background to you finding Jiu Jitsu, how you became involved with the sport and how you became such an integral part of Rickson Gracie’s group?

Luis ‘Limao’ Heredia: Jiu-Jitsu started for me when I was only 14 years old. Back then, in Rio, that was a natural age to begin jiu-jitsu unless you were a member of the Gracie family. As apposed to know, where generations are being born on the mat, including my own children. After training at a couple of different schools in Rio de Janeiro, I was intorduced by a friend to the famous Gracie Humaita school which was being run at the time by Master Helio Gracie and his sons, primarily Rickson and Royler.  After that, I found my new family, which I’m still very close and connected to until this present day. Around 1989, Rickson was invited by his brother Rorian to come to California to help promote & pioneer Gracie Jiu-jitsu in the US. That was when I was pulled onto the bandwagon. I was not only just a purple belt but the first Brazilian Purple belt in the US. Most of my life in Jiu-Jitsu has been here in the US.

KC: We could say that, in comparison, Rickson Gracie has awarded considerably less black belts than other members of the Gracie family and becoming a black belt under such a legend is complement in itself to your abilities. Given the number of black belts he has awarded (Yourself, Henry Akins, Marcelo Behring, Carlos Valente, “Megaton” Dias, Pedro Sauer and Fabio Santos to name just a few) are you a very close-knit group and do you meet, interact and support each other regularly?

LH: We always stay in contact, however, I stay the most connected with Rickson himself and work with Pedro Sauer and his amazing association. As for all the others, we stay in contact and support each in tournaments, seminars, and other events. As far as being one of the few Rickson Black Belts, I can say that it was a very harsh but rewarding path. I’m very grateful to have had the opportunity to not only train under him, but to be able to experience living with the legend for 3 years.

KC: You are the head coach and founder of Maui Jiu Jitsu in Hawaii; I would imagine the lifestyle in Maui is much the same as in Brazil. What made you decide to reside in Hawaii originally and in doing so develop BJJ on the island?

LH: After living in LA for 13 years, I had enough of the city life. So I did try to find a place to relocate that had a similar climate and lifestyle to Brazil.  Jiu-Jitsu is intuition and it can only be understood and developed when you are in connection with nature. Plus, Maui has a very special Aloha spirit! It is in the air, in the wind, in the trees, in the ocean, on the mountains, and in the people. I highly recommend anyone to experience Hawaii.

KC: Given the lifestyle is so similar to Brazil is there much difference in the passion, commitment, drive and attitudes towards training BJJ?

LH: Well, because of all of the points I’ve mentioned before, there is a huge difference in lifestyle between here and the rest of the world (not just Brazil). People are more laid back, we’re not in a such a hurry all the time, we take time to greet each other and we have appreciation for mother nature. That being, there is definitely way less distractions. All I know is Jiu-Jitsu is being loved everywhere by everyone.

KC: Hawaii is known as being a great ‘breeding ground’ for first class quality Jiu Jitsu. One of the patriarch’s of modern Jiu Jitsu – Master Relson Gracie has been established on the island for over 20 years, is Maui Jiu Jitsu in anyway affiliated to Master Relson?

LH: Well because of my tightly knit relationship with him, his brothers and his family, I guess I can say that I am very affiliated with Master Relson. He comes to our school once or twice a year.

KC: I know you are a very competent and keen surfer and living on the island I can imagine you get plenty of opportunities to hit the waves. Surfing has quite an affinity with Jiu Jitsu, the world over, and athletes from both regularly cross-train [cross-compete]. Do you believe it is the relaxed nature and the almost paralleled culture that has help both evolve or is there some other, more physical [athletic] reason for such a relationship?

LH: Definitely that was one of the main reasons why I decided to come to Maui. Killer waves, clean water, plenty of seafood. Surfing has been in my life even before Jiu-Jitsu. I started surfing at age 10 in Copacabana, Arpoador, and all over Rio. So there is a straight connection as far as cross training. Not only on the physical aspect but mostly on the mental & spiritual aspect.

KC: I am finding it increasingly difficult to pose questions for Luis Heredia with asking or at least referring to Master Rickson Gracie! You have been involved with Rickson’s Jiu Jitsu from the very beginning and helped facilitate the spread much of Gracie Jiu Jitsu across the United States and well as being by Rickson’s side at the early Japan Vale Tudo events. What sort of an effect has being a student had on your Jiu Jitsu and as a human being in general?

LH: This would be at least a 10 page answer. For the most part, he means the world to me. Sometimes like an older brother, sometimes like a father, many times as a teacher and mentor, and sometimes just like any regular friend. I definitely think that I was very lucky to be drawn to such a powerful human being. My life reflects today all that I’ve learned from Master Rickson. I’m very grateful that he was the one that showed me the way.

KC: Outside of the effect that Rickson Gracie has had on you who else from the world of Jiu Jitsu or indeed, outside of the sport has had a profound effect on your development as a young Jiu Jitsoka and more recently, a coach?

LH: His father, brothers, and whole bunch of training partners. Let’s put it this way, you’ll be learning Jiu-Jitsu until the day you die. I’m a very open person and coach as well. I learned a lot from teaching and from my students game.

KC: Could you take a minute to reminisce what it must have been like to be part of the original group of guys that help export and develop BJJ in America? Were you ever part of the regular challenges imposed by wrestlers at the time that were a little bemused and doubtful of Jiu Jitsu’s effectiveness and can you remember any of the US guys that started back in the day that are still active today?

LH: I can never erase my first moments of wondering, doubts, skepticism, but I always trusted my teachers and most of all, Jiu-Jitsu. The challenges weren’t only from wrestlers, but also from all other styles of martial arts. The challenges and doubts where quite prevalent but they were a necessary part of the expansion and growth of not only myself, but also Jiu-Jitsu. There is so many guys from those days that are still involved in jiu-jitsu and of course MMA. Some as instructors, some as fighters. But anyway, it feels good to have helped introduce so many good people and fighters to jiu-jitsu.

KC: On the flip side to the skepticism experienced in the United States in the late 1980’s early 1990’s, the Japanese have great faith in Jiu Jitsu and its effectiveness. What was it like travelling with Rickson, a man who is such revered in Japan?

LH: One of the other great experiences of my life. Getting to travel to the place that it all began. I have great respect for the way they treat martial artists in their country. Especially when traveling with Rickson Gracie. 

KC: On the Maui Jiu Jitsu Website you talk about having taken part in a seminar given by Rickson the day following his second victory (1995) at the Japan Vale Tudo event – the very same event that featured on the film ‘Choke’. What was the atmosphere like in that hall? You mention that there must have been some “200 guys there, some from the national Japanese Judo team”?

LH: I guess there were way more than 200, actually almost 400 guys. Although, at the end of the seminar, we were put through the test by at least 200 of those guys. Which was split between Rickson (Black), Royler (Black), Rockson(Purple), Fernando “Dentinho” (Purple), and myself (Brown). My assignment to get my Black belt, was to prove again, the efficiency of Gracie jiu-jitsu. I turned on the “automatic pilot” and went for it! Got one round with 14 guys straight and the second round with 15 guys straight. Finished them all, returned to LA and got my Black belt in 1995. It’s been 15 years already! Unbelievable!

KC: Rickson Gracie definitely has a legacy that will continue for a very long time to come and with that he shares much in the same as Carlos, his father Helio, Carlson and Rolls. Two other Gracie family members who are reaching inspirational heights are Roger and Rickson’s son Kron. I am not 100% sure whether Kron appeared on the “Choke” documentary and whilst I’m not suggesting for one minute that he is trying to emulate his fathers achievements in BJJ, rather paving his own way, with you knowing Rickson for such a long time, how many similarities are their between Kron and a young Rickson Gracie?

LH: The apple will never fall far from the tree. Even though they’re different individuals with different bodies, Kron is definitely paving his own way. He’s adapting the new way of playing the game with the old Gracie jiu-jitsu basics. Although he’s still young and has great potential, it is not easy to up hold the legacy of Rickson Gracie.

KC: Do you do much in the way of travelling in the name of Jiu Jitsu? I understand you have just returned from Paris, France, was this for seminars or general sightseeing/travelling?

If the trip was for a seminar, and in your opinion, how do the Europeans stack up as students in terms of those in the United States and Brazil? Is there much difference in attitudes and commitment to training between the two?

LH: Maybe by the time this is published, I’ll be back from Paris already! It is true that I do a lot of traveling to promote and to teach Jiu-jitsu all over the world. I feel honored and obligated at the same time to share this amazing experience with as many people as I can. I don’t have a preferred place. They all mean the same to me. Every dojo I go to I treat as a church. I’m sure I’ll have a great time in Europe and look forward to the trip.

KC: Recently I read an article that stated that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is one of the fastest growing sports in the UK. This has to be, in part, to the immense exposure events such as the Ultimate Fighting Championships has received of late and the media coverage that the fighters experience. As a result of Jiu Jitsu’s popularity we are seeing many more championships being staged here in the UK, indeed at the last count we have 6 between now and the end of march. I understand the in Brazil tournaments are staged almost each and every weekend, but in your opinion how important is competing in the development of a Jiu Jitsoka?

LH: I am at heart a competitor. I strongly believe that any competition is a valuable source to self understanding. You can really see where your level of preparation and experience is at. Even though I had the pleasure of standing on the podium a good amount of times in my life, my most important lessons came from the defeats. So why not compete, at least once.

KC: Staying on the subject of competing, Abu Dhabi World Professional Jiu-Jitsu Cup 2010 is scheduled for April with rumored total prize money in excess of $150,000. The European Championships is scheduled for the end of January and paradoxically will be charging aspiring competitors upwards of £85.00 ($138.00) to enter (that is without flights, transfers, accommodation and food). I believe there are tournaments in the United States that too award prize money and although nothing like the rewards offered by the Abu Dhabi World Professional Jiu-Jitsu Cup, make competing a much more appealing opportunity. In your opinion is prize money bad for the sport of Jiu Jitsu or is it the way to go if Jiu Jitsu is to challenge and enter into the realms of professional sport?

LH: I think it’s amazing incentive for the competitor. I wish that they had those kind of tournaments back when I was just starting to compete. I think you can still be a soul fighter and still reap the benefits of hard work.

KC: Luis thanks once again for taking time to answer my questions it has been a true honor having you on KombatClinic.com before we finish is there any message you would like to pass to our readers or are there any individuals that would like to mention or thank?

LH: I am very thankful to all those that helped me to reach the level I am at as a person, as an individual, as a teacher, and as a father. The list of people I’d like to thank would not fit on this page. Basically, they know who they are. I can tell all the help and support I’ve had came from those people’s hearts. The message I want to leave is very simple, always follow your heart and your feet will take you to that same direction. Believe in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu 50% and the other 50% is to believe in your own self. Put that together with mother nature and just trust. Remember, a black belt is a white belt that never ever gave up. I also would like to extend an open invitation to everyone from every school to come and experience how we live and train in paradise. I’m sure that they would find it to be a very unique experience.

KC: One last thing Luis, apologies for this but I promised to ask you. My kids wanted to know why ‘Limao’ (lemon) and who gave you that name?

LH: They needed a super hero figure in Brazil, so my friends created the Lemon Head character. As opposed to what people might think I’m not that sour. I’m actually very sweet.

KC: Thanks for your time Luis!

Possible links:
Maui Jiu Jitsu, Hawaii
Rickson Gracie Website

Schumacher, now 41, will be returning to the sport he once dominated to race under the expertise of Ross Brawn’s new outfit, headed up by Mercedes and challenge for the title against Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton. As a formula One world champion Schumacher is of course used to the pressures of success and expectation but never during his career did he have pressures such as age as a concerning factor. The article drew on a number of similarities to persuade the reader that, like so many other aged performers Schumacher and his adoring fans have little to worry about. Take Sir Stanley Matthews who whilst, didn’t have to play against the stars and pace of today’s English football Premier league but still had to content with professional footballers in the prime of their playing careers playing on until he was 50 years of age and another example in Martina Navratilova who too, competed at the highest level in tennis until she was 50.

Staying with football, the BBC Sports personality of 2009 – Ryan Giggs is one of the oldest to grace the English premiership at 36 he is still one of the most active and competent players in the league, you can also reference Paulo Maldini who played on into his 40’s at AC Milan and David Beckham who is reported to be thinking not only about South Africa 2010 but also the 20th football World Cup to be held in Brazil!

Moving away from football (soccer) we have Tom Watson’s Open Golf performance from 2009, where he finished a very close runner up at 59 years of age, the Times attests strength to a further example from golf reporting combined ages of the great Arnold Palmer, Gary Player and Jack Nicklaus at 194 years. Okay, let’s face facts now, Golf isn’t the most energetic of sporting pursuits – spoils a good walk if you ask me! But motor racing, now that’s a different thing altogether, a sport that requires immense strength, concentration as well as death defying reactions. This whole article got me thinking about old age and its relationship with performance, 30, 40 even 50 years old is not that old is it? Physical fitness is supposed to peak at around 32-34 years but Sir Steve Redgrave and Lance Armstrong are just two examples that put that hypothesis to rest from two of the world’s most demanding sports. What about active Judoka and Jiu Jitsoka, another two examples of often physical tourture, what about high-level performance here, how old is too old to be on the tatami?

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Let’s look at a few examples: firstly my old Judo coach, Robin Gell is slightly older than the aforementioned at 74 (forgive me if I am wrong Robin) and although he can no longer do any form of standing randori (due to bad knees, hips and a shoulder injury), god help you if he gets a hold of you on the floor in Ne-Waza. Neil Adams MBE, 8^th Dan, though despite being 50 years of age is still able to train with the best and indeed is active during sessions in his capacity as the coach of the Belgium National Judo squad.

From Brazilian Jiu Jitsu we have another fantastic example in Fabio Gurgel, 40 years old yet still competing at the highest level (European Championships) – Professor Gurgel really does live up to his moniker as “the General” - ‘fighting on the front line with his Alliance troops’ and whilst it is not polite to mention a woman’s age both Felicia Oh and Helen Currie are two of the best examples of ability, performance and age from our world of grappling – just phenomenal. The list could go on all day long BJJ black belt ‘Papa’ John Gorman who as a BJJ black belt didn’t start training Jiu Jitsu until he was 55 years old and the most senior female Judoka in the world Sensei Keiko Fukuda, 9th Dan is 90 years old, but perhaps the Grand Daddy of them all was fellow ‘nonagenarian’ Master Helio Gracie- the patriarch of Gracie Jiu Jitsu who, at the ripe old age of 95, was still able to hold his own at any academy he graced.

So let’s see… how old are you? How often are you on the mats? I think we could be surprised with this one… your comments please…

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is an art/sport characterised by ground fighting. More so than just being the most effective and efficient sport for groundwork, BJJ has it very own peculiar and largely unique positions to launch techniques from.

One of these is the ‘Guard’ (“do-osae” in Judo or the “body-scissors” in catch-wrestling). According to wikipedia: whilst “in the Guard, the practitioner is on their back controlling an opponent with their legs. The practitioner pushes and pulls with the thighs or feet to upset the balance and limit the movements of their opponent. This position comes into play often when an opponent manages to place the practitioner upon his or her back and the practitioner seeks the best position possible to launch counter-attacks. This is a very versatile position from which the BJJ practitioner can apply a variety of joint-locks as well as various chokes.”

Despite this succinct description the guard is not confined to wrapping ones legs around your opponent and pushing and pulling with ones legs to upset balance. There is more to it than this and the guard comes in various different guises each one prescribed its very own unique strategy and each suitable for different situations or body types.

Over the years many BJJ athletes including Ricardo Goded, Nino Schembri, Eduardo Telles, Marcio Cruz and Roberto Magalhaes have experimented with the guard and as a result many new and improved submission techniques and sweeps have evolved. They have taken the guard and revolutionized its use and practice into a whole plethora of forms that are still noted as a ‘guard’ position and whilst no means a definitive list we now have: the full/closed guard, butterfly guard, cross guard, the Ricardo ‘De la Riva’ Goded guard, the half guard, Gustavo Machado’s quarter guard, the turtle guard, Tony DeSouza’s monkey guard, Eduardo Telles variant to the turtle [the octopus guard], the open guard, Eddie Bravo’s rubber guard, the spider guard, the upsidedown guard, Marcelo Garcia’s X-guard, it’s newer named cousin the Z-guard and through the more recent work of Rubens “Cobrinha” Charles, the Mendes brothers and Ryan Hall – the 50/50 guard.

However many variables we have to drill and perfect, one common gripe amongst beginners is their general lack of flexibility at the Ilio/glutual, adductor region surrounding the hip and groin respecively and thus inhibited movements whilst attempting the aforementioned submissions and sweeps from each guard variant and or in defending subsequent guard passes.

To start 2010 off steadily here are some stretches for you to use that may help improve the dexterity of your guard, Happy New Year!

For some time now we have seen a number of posts, threads and groups on online forums and social networking sites written and set up specifically to address the distinct lack of support, direction, appreciation and retention for all women within the grappling fraternity here in the United Kingdom. It has been established time and time again that the opportunities open to women in our sport of ‘grappling’ are far behind those of their male counterparts; an issue that is indicative in the wider context of the sporting environment. Nevertheless, great inroads have been laid and foundations have been set for women’s grappling to achieve it full potential not only in the UK but also across the world as a whole.

A number of groups have been set up across the world for women to converge, learn and be inspired by other women. To support, direct and appreciate women’s grappling with like-minded individuals. Work has also been done here in the UK with ‘women only’ classes at most of the big academies/dojo up and down the country and a number of smaller groups meeting on a monthly/bi-monthly basis to train and exchange ideas in an environment that is suited and much more comfortable and convenient for women to learn.

The UK has some terrifically talented female grapplers and we are able to boast high-level athletes from the fastest growing sport in the world today – Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and also a crop of Olympic Judoka that are amongst the upper echelons of their respective weight categories. In 2010 this talent pool and sphere of knowledge is set to be tapped into in such a way that every women involved in grappling [whether a professional athlete or weekly hobbyist] will have the chance to train on a number of camps specifically designed and organised with women in mind - the first of which is set for Sunday 21st March 2010. In summary, our first seminar, camp, training day, call it what you will is as follows: 

Event: Inaugural Training Day for Women
Instructors:
Helen Currie (the UK’s only female Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt) 
Rosi Sexton (the UK’s most successful female pro MMA athlete)
Date: Sunday 21st March 2010
Time: From 12pm prompt
Venue: Caged Steel Training Centre, 31 Bretton Street, Dewsbury, West Yorkshire. WF12 9BJ
Cost: £25.00 per person (FREE t-shirt)
More information: david.webb@kombatclinic.com
Online community: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=236373450188

Thank you for your time,
David Webb
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By David Webb, 11th January 2010

This, the second of two interviews done with Emily Kwok and Valerie Worthington, is meant to highlight the work being done by both, alongside fellow world champion Felicia Oh over in the United States of America and Canada to promote women’s grappling. At various intervals Emily and Val are responsible for sharing their world-class knowledge on a number of women only camps with an ever-increasing number of dedicated and committed female grapplers. For further information on the camps in question check out: http://www.womensgrappling.org

Enjoy!

Interview:

KombatClinic.com: Emily and Val, thank you for taking time to do this follow up joint interview for KombatClinic.com could we start with a little background to how you two met? I guess as world-class Brazilian Jiu Jitsu athletes it must have been through your sport, right?

Emily Kwok: Yes!  We met at the 2007 ADCC North American Trials where we fought each other in the first round and since then have travelled in the same circles. (Emily) Felicia [Oh] and I met in California as I’d fly out for tournaments and was introduced by a mutual friend.

KC: Who came up with the idea of women’s grappling camps or womensgrappling.org?

Val Worthington: Felicia and a student of hers by the name of Alaina Hardie first generated the idea. Alaina had begun studying BJJ and was very inspired by it and looked up to some female athletes in the field. I believe she approached Felicia with the idea of doing a women’s only grappling camp.  Whereas womensgrappling.org was the result of a discussion we all had where we went with a broader name than womensgrapplingcamp.org because we realized we could do a lot more with/for women’s grappling and it would be useful to have a website that reflected that.

KC: Was the rationale behind the women’s grappling camps simply because of a lack of opportunities for women interested in grappling or are they almost a natural progression from the work you maybe do at various seminars or tutorials within you own academies?

EK: It took everyone by surprise really. Alaina was a white (maybe blue) belt at the time and thought it would be a good idea because there didn’t seem to be much offered for women in the sport.

I think Felicia, Val and I were part of a different generation of women in BJJ where we were the only woman present in the academy, and had learned to join in and just accept what was offered for men. None of us foresaw the need or popularity of it.

VW: You can talk to Alaina about her rationale, but one of the things I think the camp gives women is the opportunity to train with other women for an extended period of time. So often, women who train are the only women at their specific academy. So, while the number of women in the sport is growing, women can still feel isolated and/or like the only opportunities they ever have to train with other women is when they are competing against them at tournaments. The camp seems to be getting the word out that women want to make a meaningful contribution to the world of grappling, and those opportunities seem to be opening up more and more.

KC: I recently listened once again to the interview you both gave [along with Felecia Oh] over on the Fightworks Podcast (issue #181) with Bruce Hoyer and in listening to you talk about your women’s grappling camps what struck me and what is evident for all to appreciate is your consciously thought out approach to giving all women that attend a first-class, positive learning experience.

EK: Absolutely. I owe my progression in the sport to men, but that being said, it wasn’t always easy. It can be a very masculine sport and is most definitely a masculine environment. As women I think we’ve often had to be resourceful in how we fit in and managed to survive amidst a lot of testosterone! Being able to provide a positive experience at these camps for me (and I’m pretty sure Val and Felicia would agree) is a great opportunity because for the first time, we are giving these ladies room to be who they are, giving them a place to appreciate the sport the way they need to. 

KC: Paying attention to you guys talk it seems that you all understand (maybe from your own experiences) that with women in general it is essential that trust and commitment to safe and accountable learning are paramount if the woman is 1). To enjoy the learning experience 2). Return to training and 3). Ultimately progress and develop. Is this a fair assumption? 

VW: This is a fair assumption, but not just for women. One of the things we discuss (probably ad nauseam) at the camp is that as women, we need to be able to tell the difference between issues that are specific to women in grappling and issues that are applicable to all grapplers, male and female, who are new to the game. With women, there is the added issue of the fact that the close contact can be awkward at first (if a man and a woman roll with each other), but if everybody is there for the same reason—to learn to grapple and to get better at it—then that issue dissipates quickly.

EK: And I think it’s funny how the 3 of us until later in our careers did not have other women to bounce these thoughts off of. We have been learning a lot about ourselves and as much as we are providing a place for other women to relate to each other, we are finding a place for ourselves as well. I suppose it’s about realizing that we haven’t been alone in feeling this way about our development, but it’s our own experiences that have been largely ignored or put aside.

KC: You also touched upon the fact that there may indeed be two types of beginners (male and female) and many instructors forget that rolling around on the floor with virtual strangers may be perfectly natural for men but for women it is somewhat different. From my own experiences in coaching I am aware that many women would not have continued their training if other women had not been on the mats too. Is it your experience that women generally get more out of being empowered by female coaching staff than males? And on the flip side to this, how have male athletes responded to you teaching them?

VW: You know, I don’t have enough access to female grapplers to know whether they get more out of being coached by female coaching staff. One thing Emily, Felicia, and I all have in common is the fact that any progress we have made in the sport is the direct result of coaching we received from men, men who took an active interest in our progress and helped us improve. I was lucky in that I loved grappling so much that I just wanted to learn, and I didn’t care who from. But then again, I can see how some women who might love grappling might also do better in a more female-oriented environment.

EK: I think it definitely helps to have other females present. If you are fortunate enough to have senior female students or a female instructor, it often sets an example to anyone coming into the sport that ‘women do this too’.  That’s not to say that females don’t exist alone in some academies, because many of us still do, but I think it might be fair to say that those females are anomalies!

As for male athletes responding to female instruction, it’s interesting. Some men are open to learning from any black belt period. In fact, some are very excited and supportive of female instructors. Others, perhaps the majority, are somewhat sceptical and want to see you prove your skills to them. Then there is a minority who seem to think it’s laughable that a woman could teach them to fight. 

VW: As for how my male team-mates have responded to me teaching them, they haven’t really had a choice. But seriously, what helps a great deal is that my male team-mates and instructors who are black, brown, and purple belts simply treat me like another instructor. And so the lower belts follow their lead and do the same. It helps that over time I have developed confidence not only in my game, but also in my ability to teach and provide a meaningful learning experience for students.

KC: Do you think the male reactions would have been any different if your had not been World Champions in your own right?

EK: I think their reaction would be just the same. I think their sentiment really revolves around their own perceptions of women and whether they respect our knowledge and skills.

VW: The titles certainly help. But I wouldn’t have had the opportunity to compete on the level I have if I hadn’t put in the mat time, day after day, and worked as hard as any of the guys to improve. In other words, doing well at tournaments definitely confers credibility. But the capacity to do well at tournaments comes from mat time, and it’s also that consistency that your students and team-mates see and that makes a lasting impression.

KC: Going back to the element of trust that female attendees seem to require from a coach. The issue of “spazzy white belt guy” was prevalent in an interview I heard – the stereotypical overzealous beginner who is either overly keen to learn and doesn’t pay attention to his training partners needs or is simply a ignorant tool.

I am sure all of the readers have come across a similar pain in the ass, but do you think that this kind tends to affect women beginners mindsets because of the negative learning experience they get from drilling or rolling or is it more of a perceived and apparent notion that ‘every gym has a “spazzy white belt guy” so gyms aren’t for me’ philosophy that is responsible for a low uptake in grappling by women or indeed them not taking that first step into the gym in the first place?

EK: I think all new students, not just females, should acknowledge the ‘spazzy white belt’.  However, the sport can look intimidating and aggressive as it is, so I certainly don’t think watching a ‘SWB’ helps the situation! Most females don’t want to be put into a position where they could be in danger, and trying to learn how to defend yourself from that position can be a scary thing.  Overcoming the fear of stepping on the mats is a challenge enough.

VW: I agree; generally speaking a grappling gym is an incredibly intimidating place for a newbie or an outsider. That’s not by design; it’s just a fact of the sport. If you are brand new, you have no idea what you are watching. It looks violent, vaguely sexual, and completely weird. Most people, men and women alike, are not interested in grappling because they can’t really make sense of it. The UFC is changing that, of course, and it seems it is changing that for men and women in equal measure.

Anyone interested in learning grappling should put self-preservation at the top of the priority list. It’s not only women who have to worry about spazzy white belt guy. I know plenty of big guys who have been hurt by the newbie. There are different ways of handling that; one obvious way for women and smaller guys to handle it is to get the instructor to help them choose appropriate training partners until they can do so on their own.

KC: It seems from an outsider’s point of view that your camps have a great community element and a networking aspect, in so far as many of the attendees have brought something into the group that you can rely on or share amongst the camp to foster further development, for example, past Judo backgrounds, sports nutrition and sports psychology. Was this something that you planned to accept before the first camp or did this aspect just evolve as the camps grew in popularity?

VW: Again, you can talk to Alaina about her master plan, but from my perspective, we had a vague idea that a camp would be pretty cool, but we had no idea that it would have “legs.” So we were interested in getting involvement from anyone and everyone who was willing because we wanted to provide a good experience for the campers, and we wanted to rope people in before they knew what they were signing on for. Keep in mind that we’ve only done two camps, so not much has had time to evolve. So far it has been very organic, though we’re working on getting more organized!

EK: I think we were always open to it, and as the camps have continued, the community has evolved. It has a very organic feel and I think the campers really enjoy it. We want to foster an environment where these ladies can be heard and contribute what they uniquely offer to the sport. We want them to know that they matter and we care.

KC: As a result of the women’s camp you organise have you noticed any increases in female participation in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu/No-Gi grappling or numbers attending tournaments such as ADCC trials, Mundials, Pan-Ams, NAGA and say Grapplers Quest? If so, do you think that this is a genuine increase or are you now paying more attention to the issue simply because you are more in tune with women participating and the need for more grappling opportunities for females per se?

VW: I don’t think we can directly attribute any increases to the camp – yet. As I said, we’ve only done two, and we haven’t kept track of who has attended relative to who is competing in various tournaments. But what I can say, and Emily and Felicia have experienced this as well, is that when I go to tournaments, other academies and seminars, women I run into have heard of the camp and want details about when the next one is happening. So maybe in the future we’ll be able to say with certainty that the camp has positively affected female participation in major tournaments, but for now, we just have a sense that word is getting out that the camp exists and is a resource for women who want to learn more about grappling alongside other women who want the same thing.

EK: I think the sport is growing on its own for women. The way I see our involvement, I see us supporting that growth and if anything, providing more resources for women to continue progressing.

KC: This issue of KombatClinic.com is totally devoted to females within Judo and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu there is a definite distinction between male and female competitors right across the board in all sports, prize money and available/suitable competitions are just two examples. Next year there is to be a women’s category in the Abu Dhabi Pro 2010. This is a great step in the right direction for women’s grappling in general especially for that part of the world. Will either of you be attending?

VW: I am attending!

EK: I’m not certain what my competition schedule is yet for the coming year, but I’m glad to see that women will be included. I do think that there is a lot of inconsistency in what is offered for women and I don’t feel that we are always an important group to most tournament promoters. I hope that as we show that there are more and more women are practicing and are viable customers, that we will see more stability and inclusion.

KC: In terms of opportunities for women, what would you both like to see next if anything? Obviously the issue of a lack of women at the higher end of belts in BJJ will come gradually with time but is there anything that you think should be removed or added into the sport of BJJ, No-Gi submission wrestling or grappling in general that would bring male and female events closer?

VW: there are still discrepancies in prize money and number of weight classes for female compared to male competitors. Maybe the latter is an issue that will resolve itself as more women enter the sport and fill out the weight classes, But the former continues to be a shame for many reasons, not the least of which is that women’s matches are consistently as technical, exciting to watch, and full of heart as the men’s matches.

EK: I would really appreciate more media coverage given to women.  I think the ladies that make it to the top deserve to be recognized just as much as the men.  We are often given minimal coverage in some publications, but I truly believe that the audience out there desires more than that.  I hope to see more interviews and photographs showcasing the top performers and promoting things like our camp for other females and males to see.  If people see that there is a healthy community of female grapplers, I think it will encourage others to stay involved or become more actively involved.

KC: Have you any ideas to get more exposure and coverage for female events that would ultimately help generate more interest for women to take up grappling?

EK: I think it’s time for us to take matters into our own hands and offer more. We can’t wait for everyone else to pay attention; I think we have enough momentum to create more outlets ourselves in our smaller communities.  There are internet forums, mailing lists and blogs that female grapplers are posting information on. I think we have a decent grass roots campaign!

VW: As I mentioned before, I actually think the UFC is helping with that. I also think there is and will be a snowball effect. Felicia designed the t-shirts for the camp, and the design depicts a 3-pointed star (one point for her, one for Emily, and one for me) with many other, lighter points radiating out as well. The idea is that the three of us touch the women at the camp, and those women then go on and make connections with the women in their communities, until we take over the world! Just kidding, of course. But the idea is that we help other women feel empowered to make a meaningful contribution to their own corner of the grappling world – helping men and women alike – and it becomes the gift that keeps on giving.

KC: I think we have established that grappling is a very male orientated world; products are released almost monthly by top-level male athletes from books, instructional DVD’s and DVD’s celebrating accomplishments and legacies, indeed over the last few months and into Spring 2010 we would have had three huge releases (Renzo Gracie: Legacy, The Gracie’s and the birth of Vale Tudo and a new project by Daren Bartlett, Roger Gracie: Victory movie). Whilst these films are great and well deserved, are there any women that deserve the same credit, coverage and celebration in your opinion?

VW: So many. Emily and Felicia, to name two. Penny Thomas. Ana Laura Cordeiro. Lana Stefanac. Cindy Omatsu, the first American female black belt. Luca Diaz, who has been around the scene for many years and paved the way for many of us. And there are tons of up and comers as well, like Hillary Williams.

EK: I think there is a market for female DVD’s and documentaries.  Some females in this sport have amazing stories to tell. Leticia Ribeiro, Luciana Diaz, Penny Thomas, Hannette Staack… hearing Val and Felicia’s stories made me see that it takes a certain type of person to accomplish and overcome some of the personal battles that they’ve had in order to be where they are now.  We are not so much in the mainstream since it’s tough to get media coverage at times, but a lot of those names are recognized because of their longevity and perseverance in the field.

KC: Have you guys any thoughts on taking the women’s camp overseas and outside of the US and Canada? Maybe Europe bound? Or even to coincide with the Abu Dhabi Pro 2010 what with it being the first year female entrants have been included? (Great exposure)…

VW: I think we’d all love to do this. A grappling friend of mine from way back lives in South Africa now, and he and I have discussed the possibility of doing a camp there in the next year or so. As the camp grows and we get better at running it, there’s no reason we couldn’t take it global. The sky is the limit!

EK: I think in the long term we’d love to see it develop along those lines. Right now I believe our focus is on really making this camp something real to all of us. We’ve just gotten over the fact that there is a market for it! Lol

KC: Val and Emily, thank you very much for taking time out to talk about your work on your women’s grappling camps is there anything else you would like to add before we finish or maybe individuals you would care to thank?

EK: there are many, many people to thank, Felicia, Val and all my instructors and team-mates the last 9 years. A few notables: Roy Duquette – for introducing me to the sport and being the first person to believe in my abilities, Alaina Hardie- for believing in us and helping me open my eyes to the legacy we are a part of, and Gerry Hurtado – for always pushing me forward and never letting me falter.

VW: Felicia, Emily, and Alaina, of course. I also want to stress that just because I’m interested in promoting women in grappling, that doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate the many men who have made my grappling experiences possible. I owe so many people a debt of gratitude, and I’ll just name a few of them, specifically my instructors over the years: Carlson Gracie, Jr., Johnny Ramirez, John Ouano, Cristian Lopez, Chris Woolford, Shawn Williams, Sean Patrick Flanery, Ryan Fiorenzi, Julian Loredo, and the late, great Carlson Gracie. Each of these people has given me something that has furthered me along my grappling path, and I am forever grateful.

KC: All the best with the camps and thanks for your time!

Possible links:
womensgrappling.org

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