The Lion: Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt José Henrique Leão Teixeira & author Seymour Yang

José Henrique Leão Teixeira is a sixth degree Brazilian jiu-jitsu (BJJ) black belt who studied under one of the most legendary ‘Gracie’ brothers, Rolls Gracie. He later went on to help shape the future development of BJJ with the founding of the first Federation and several big tournaments. Seymour Yang went to meet the BJJ master when he came to conduct a seminar and grading at BJJ School in London.

Images by kind permission of Seymour Yang.

Seymour Yang: Hi Zé, thanks for taking the time for this interview.

José Henrique Leão Teixeira: It is my pleasure Seymour.

SY: For those that are maybe not aware of your background and achievements, please tell us a little about yourself?

LT: I am the owner of a BJJ academy in Rio called Escola de Jiu-Jitsu, which just means Jiu-Jitsu School in English and I have been training BJJ since I was 14 years old [Ed. Master Leão is now 52]. I first learned my jiu-jitsu from Master Rolls Gracie and then afterwards, I was training under Master Carlos Gracie Jr.

SY: Rolls Gracie was known as one of the most famous and legendary fighters of his generation. Tell me more about your time with him?

LT: Yes Rolls was a great teacher and amazing man. As you probably know, Rolls tragically died at a very young age and it was a big shock to everyone.
[Ed. Rolls Gracie was the son of BJJ founder Carlos Gracie. Rolls died in 1992 in a hang gliding accident at the age of 31. He was widely regarded as a pioneer and innovator of BJJ, introducing many new concepts and techniques to the sport.] Rolls Gracie meant a lot to us all, his contribution to the growing importance of jiu-jitsu cannot be denied. His discipline and determination in class made a deep impression on me and are values that I believe in until today. I have made them the mission of my school.

SY: What was it like to train BJJ in this amazing part of its history?

LT: Jiu-jitsu was not as popular as it is now. Today we have academies all over the world but when I began, there were only a few academies and I was training with all the Gracie brothers, like Rickson, Carlos, Crolin and the Machado brothers and many tough black belts. In fact many tough guys from other academies would also come to train with us.

SY: You mean guys from rival academies? This would never happen now?

LT: Yes, once a week every Friday, we and the students from Jacaré’s or Rickson’s academy would meet up to train. It was friendly and we just loved training. You have to understand my instructor and their instructors were all from the same family so there was no big rivalry at that time. You can imagine how much my own jiu-jitsu improved with all these amazing guys.

SY: Tell me about your training after Rolls passed away?

LT: After Rolls died, the academy was run by Carlos Gracie Jr [aka Carlinhos, son of BJJ founder Carlos Gracie] and after a time Carlinhos and his brothers changed the academy name to Gracie Barra – which is now a very famous team as you know – and I started to teach there, in particular the kids.

SY: Yes teaching kids is one of the many things that you are especially well known for; tell me why you enjoy this aspect of instruction?

LT: Oh well kids are a gift you know? I mean they are such amazing students, they learn fast and you see how they play with the jiu-jitsu just like they play with anything else in their lives, they really have fun. I just do not understand why some people say ‘I don’t like teaching kids’ because to me, if you are a teacher, a good teacher, you can teach jiu-jitsu to anyone, young or old. Not just the talented athletes, but to everyone.

SY: BJJ was expanding very fast at this time, tell me how you got involved in the setting up of the first BJJ Federation?

LT: Carlinhos, Jean Jacques Machado and I founded the Association of Jiu-Jitsu of Barra da Tijuca which was very successful and it inspired Carlinhos to found the Brazilian Confederation of Jiu-Jitsu [Ed. today known as the International Brazilian Jiu-jitsu Federation, IBJJF, and hosts the largest BJJ tournaments in the world]. Since the first Brazilian Championship event, I helped Carlinhos with seminars for referees, and continued to teach kids and young adults. Later I thought it was important to have an event for older athletes so I founded the International Masters and Seniors tournament. Today I am Vice President of the IBJJF.

SY: The International Masters and Seniors Championship is a very popular event, I know quite a few British based fighters who go each year.

LT: Yes it is a very big tournament now. In the beginning it was my idea to provide a championship to get the older stars out of retirement and give some motivation to come back and compete. I am so pleased with how it has grown so big now.

SY: Why did you leave and set up your own academy?

LT: I had been teaching and training at Carlinhos’ academy for over ten years and I felt it was a good time to do something new, so I asked Carlinhos if I could set up my own school? At first he was a bit shocked, asking me ‘why do you want your own academy?’ But I explained my vision of opening up a club just for kids. He was very supportive. 

So, in 1992 I set up Escola de Jiu-Jitsu and in only two years my academy grew to over 200 kids! I’m very proud that there are a lot of kids from my school who have become black belts and many have won World titles. Today I have three other academies, each run by my own students who have been with me since they were kids and now they are black belts. It was not my intention at all to expand, I am very happy with my own academy and family life that I have, but it is important to allow my students to continue to grow, so I let them open up new schools under my academy name.

SY: A lot of BJJ academies are very focused on competition, is this important to you too?

LT: Competition is of course a good thing. But it is just a result. It is only one part of jiu-jitsu. My school carries the legacy that was taught to us by Carlos Gracie and later on by his sons. This is that jiu-jitsu is there to help you in all your areas of your life, to improve yourself and make you a better person.

You see, we have many, many students at my academies and they are not all interested in competition. Of course, you do have some people who are born to fight – for example recently I had one kid, he had only two weeks of lessons and wanted to compete. We taught him just two techniques and he went on to win the whole division. Kids like him are born to fight, you don’t really need to teach him that. But most people are here to learn jiu-jitsu because jiu-jitsu is first of all a self defence, you do not need to have big athletic ability like high kicks of big punches, the moves are so simple. It is a healthy thing and most people just love the training. So my academy, and my philosophy is very much designed to encourage this.

SY: So you teach the self defence aspects too?

LT: Yes we teach everyone, especially the beginners, the self defence techniques of BJJ. I realize some students think this is just old-fashioned jiu-jitsu but it is very important. In fact I have some students who only train in this aspect.

SY: You are very well known for bringing BJJ to the favelas with your social projects, tell me about this?

LT: My academy was doing very well and I had a good comfortable life, but I was still thinking that maybe I could do something more. I wanted to help the poorer people in our city so I decided to teach jiu-jitsu in the favelas. [Ed. Favelas are notorious slum districts of Rio and other big Brazilian cities] It was very popular, but still I was not happy. Each week I would travel to the favelas and then go home to my comfortable life, it did not seem right. So I decided to make it a bigger project – I wanted to bring kids out of the favelas and into my academy so they would experience life outside their own place.

SY: How did your other students find this?

LT: It was a risk for me to do this. In my academy, we had the favela kids mixing with the kids from the richer neighbourhoods and I did not know if their parents would reject my idea and take away their kids – this was my business after all. But, and this is the most amazing thing, all the kids trained together so well and the parents really loved what was happening. It broke everyone’s fears or prejudices. They really supported me and now, since I began the project in 1994, my project, which is called Future Champions, is still going. Many of my early students have become black belts and are teaching and running academies now. And now I am so happy that Felipe de Souza (Heart of the Lion, MAI January 2010) has carried on with this project for the kids in London. Last week I saw how his Future Champions project has grown – there are so many kids now and they are really benefiting from learning jiu-jitsu.

SY: Do any of your Future Champions students carry on with their BJJ when they become adults?

LT: Oh yes many. I mean there are many that give up too, but we have many who have graduated to black belt. One example is a student called Vinicius who started training at the same time as Felipe and are about the same age, yet come from totally different backgrounds. Vinicius is now running one of my academies, and of course Felipe is here with BJJ School. But I like to think that my project really changed the life of Vinicius because in the favelas, the government does not care much about the people there, and there are very little choices for them.

SY: How do you organize the project?

LT: In the beginning it was my dream to help as many kids as possible. I invited as many to come train with me as possible – up to 100 at one point. But it was soon clear it was out of control -  that I could not save the whole world! I needed a system to limit the numbers and find students who really wanted to train because they loved jiu-jitsu. So now I conduct interviews with the kids and the parents and try to explain my ideas and goals to them. We now have 20-30 kids on the project, which is much more manageable.

SY: Why do you think you have this desire to help people with jiu-jitsu?

LT: I believe from my heart that if you receive a gift, it is your obligation to pass that gift on. Jiu-jitsu was the gift given to me by all the Gracie brothers and now I am passing that on.

SY: Finally, tell me how you see BJJ growing in the next few years?

LT: When I see how much jiu-jitsu has spread throughout the world, I am very happy to have been a part of this. The martial arts were born in India and then developed in China and of course in Japan, which is the source of Brazilian jiu-jitsu. But now, when you go to Japan and when I speak to Japanese students, when they talk about ‘jiu-jitsu’, they only mean Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu! This is how our art has changed the world!

SY: Professor Leao, it’s been a real pleasure – I could talk to you for hours! Thank you for your time today.

LT: Thank you very much my friend.

Seymour Yang is a BJJ purple belt and writer of the BJJ blog: www.meerkatsu.com

FURTHER INFORMATION:

1. BJJ School (UK) website: http://www.bjjschool.co.uk/
2. Escola De Jiu-Jitsu (Rio de Janeiro): http://www.escoladejiujitsu.com.br/
3. Future Champions: http://bjjschool.co.uk/future-champions/

 

Tarsis Humphreys victorious at the 2010 BJJ Mundials

Interview: David Webb, 11 August 2010
Images by kind permission of Alicia Anthony @ aliciaphotos.com

Perennial podium finisher over the past few years, Alliance stalwart, Tarsis Humphreys, reached the pinnacle of his Jiu Jitsu career back in June 2010 when he won the Meio-Pesado event at the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Mundials with an emphatic win over his rival Romulo Barral.

With his pinpoint leg attacks that home in like a crude missile, Tarsis provides much of the backbone to the phenomenal success of team Alliance and amongst the likes of Rubens Charles, Michael Langhi, Marcelo Garcia, Bruno Malfacine, Bernardo Faria and Antonio Peinado he conveys a tremendous intensity for the team in both Gi and no-Gi events.
 
A black belt student and fanatical supporter of his teacher Fabio ‘the General’ Gurgel, he his began his Jiu Jitsu journey at the age of 13 years old in his home city of Sao Paulo, Brazil and until recently was still training out of the same academy. KombatClinic.com caught up with Tarsis having just opened a brand new facility in Miami, Florida (Alliance Miami) where we talk of his most recent success, his inspirations and what he believes the future holds for him in the world of Jiu Jitsu.

As always, enjoy!

Interview:

KombatClinic.com: Tarsis, many thanks for taking time to do this interview for KombatClinic.com, can we start with asking how you originally became involved in Jiu Jitsu and what drew you to the sport in the first place? Were you the sort of kid that came to Ju Jitsu at an early age or was it something you discovered as a teenager?

Tarsis Humphreys: I started Jiu Jitsu when I was 13 years old after a friend of mine showed me some moves. I loved it. I just started training with Fabio Gurgel, and never looked back

KC: So was being born in Sao Paulo a natural path in joining team Alliance what with its representation in the area or were there other teams with academies that you could have quite as easily chosen?

TH: I was very lucky as my Mom put me at Fabio Gurgel’s school, originally I wanted to train with Flavio Behring, but Fabio’s school was closer to my home, and my mother offered to teach Fabio some English classes in return for Jiu Jitsu for my brother and I – we didn’t have any money to pay for Jiu Jitsu

Tarsis Humphreys attempts a toe-hold on Eduardo Telles in their semi-final match at the 2010 Mundials

KC: 2010 was another great year for Alliance at the Mundials as you took the team championships for the third time. We often hear champion athlete’s mention how important a ‘team’ is to their success and Romulo Barral spoke in a recent interview about his time at Gracie Barra with the likes of Braulio Estima and Roger Gracie also representing Gracie Barra. What does it mean to you to be part of such a successful team and with that sharing the mats and celebration with guys such as Rubens “Cobrinha” Charles, Marcelo Garcia, Lucas Lepri, Sergio Moraes and Michael Langhi and have mentors like Fabio Gurgel and Romero ‘Jacare’ Cavalcanti?

TH: This is the most important part, Alliance Jiu Jitsu, is the most technical, and has the most different styles during the training and this makes all the difference. We have a lot of black belts training everyday; everybody trains so hard there and Fabio is an awesome teacher, he knows everything, all the details, he is the best, and “Jacaré” is a really good coach as well, he teaches everything to Fabio – great instructors.

KC: Many congratulations on the opening of your new academy in Miami, Florida!

Is the new academy under the ‘Alliance Jiu Jitsu’ banner or is this the start of a ‘Tarsis Humphreys Jiu Jitsu’ project?

TH: It is Tarsis Humphreys, under Team Alliance – Alliance Miami.

KC: And what were your motives for opening an academy in Miami? Did you ever think about opening an academy in San Diego, California? I ask because that area has become synonymous with quality, world-class Jiu Jitsu teams and academies.

TH: My uncle lives in San Diego and I have been there many times, but I really like Miami, a like the climate, and here I have a new area for my Jiu Jitsu. Miami doesn’t have many good teams and I stay closer to Brazil. Everything is going well here.

KC: You are a pretty inspirational competitor for many fans of Jiu Jitsu (me included), who, if anyone, was inspirational for you when you started to come through the ranks and are there any Jiu Jitsu fighters that your enjoy watching on the circuit right now more than others?

TH: Thank you for that. Many fighters have inspired me: Fabio Gurgel, with his tight game. “Tereré”, and his smartness in using the rules, Lucas Lepri, “Cobrinha”, Michael Langhi who are all very technical, and with a beautiful Jiu Jitsu. Roger Gracie, Xande Ribeiro, Ronaldo “Jacaré” Souza. There are many fighters and I try to take a little piece of all of them and put it in my game.

KC: Conditioning seems to be a big part of your preparation for competition what does your preparation for an event such as the Mundials entail and are you still working with Edmilson Dantas of ‘LPO System’ for your strength and conditioning regime?

TH: Yes this is the guy; he does an incredible job and is very professional. He knows how to prepare somebody for Jiu Jitsu, and other sports, i believe in him and he’s training. He made me a true champion together with [Fabio] Gurgel teaching me all the Jiu Jitsu i know.

KC: It seems Edmilson has quite a stable of sportsmen and women using his strength & conditioning programme. Is he responsible for any other Jiu Jitsoka from Alliance Jiu Jitsu?

TH: Yes, Luana Alzuguir and Antonio Peinado. In the past he has worked with the likes of Gabriel Vella, Rubens “Cobrinha” Charles, “Tereré”, Eduardo Telles and André Galvao.

KC: Wow, that is quite an impressive batch of clients. Back in June you joined an elite crop of Jiu Jitsoka and became the 2010 Mundials champion, your first Mundials title as a black belt competitor, how did that feel?

TH: I feel great about it, it’s like I accomplished a mission in my life. I have really wanted this for many years and then i did it!

KC: During you final match against Romulo Barral, Romulo sustained quite a severe injury to his knee, which he has subsequently had surgery upon. We often here from high level sportsmen and women post event where they attest to the rigors of training and the fact that they came into the event not 100% How hard is it to compete at the top level without carrying some form of injury onto the mat before you even start? And is this something that Jiu Jitsoka must learn to deal with because of the rigors of our sport?

TH: For sure, I bet with you that all the top fighters must have some injury at some point during competition; this is part of any sport. The big deal is that you don’t let your opponents know your weak points.

KC: I heard on a recent interview where Luca Atalla from Gracie Magazine was quoted as saying that when you came off the mat from your recent encounter with Roger Gracie (2010 Mundials Absolute division) you commented to a friend “Roger is doing different Jiu Jitsu to the rest of us”. What did you mean by that? Are Rogers skills and abilities that far removed from everyone else’s, even at the top end of our sport?

TH: Yes he is totally different. He is big, and he is a Gracie! 

He knows all the details, he is very tight and his Jiu Jitsu is very progressive and forward, it’s just too easy for him, but he is not invincible just very hard to beat.

KC: If that is the case, what are you guys going to do to combat it?

TH: Train very hard! We have to be stronger than him and we must have good strategy and better judo than Roger.

KC: Okay, back to competition. People often say that the Jiu Jitsu ‘season’ runs from around January – June [starting with the Europeans, followed by the Abu Dhabi Pro and Pan Ams and culminating in the Mundials in June] as your season, in terms of really high level championships, has finished for 2010 what are your goals for the rest of 2010 and leading into 2011?

TH: To build my gym with lots of students and make a great job with my students. I am thinking about the Abu Dhabi no Gi event for next year; i want this title, as I don’t have it yet.

Tarsis becomes 2010 [Meio-Pesado] Mundials champion after beating Romulo Barral in June 2010

KC: What makes Tarsis Humphreys ‘tick’ in terms of setting goals and ultimately achieving them? And do you sit down with your coaches (at Alliance and Edmilson Dantas) to work a plan to achieve goals or do you just strive to attain them yourself?

TH: If you want to be professional and the best, you need many people working with you. Jiu Jitsu coaches for preparation and also sponsors, without them it is very hard.

KC: Recently there has been much talk about a submissions only match better Rubens “Cobrinha” Charles and Rafael Mendes – taking Jiu Jitsu back to it’s roots. What do you think to the event in concept and is this something you would enjoy being involved in?

TH: I think this it is gonna be a real fight. 

Mendes fights only to be a champion, he doesn’t look to submit. But he is respecting the rules and this is aloud but I don’t think this is beautiful Jiu Jitsu. I find it boring to watch.

I think this event is very good because they gonna show who is the real best and who really fights – who is the best fighter.

KC: You have had some really tough battles over the years including: versus Braulio Estima, Andre Galvao and Romulo Barral, which of these guys would you like to meet in a submissions only match like the one being billed for Cobrinha vs. Mendes

TH: Anyone, they are all great fighters, but I like to compete against Galvao.

KC: Many top level Jiu Jitsoka, although being fantastic athletes in all areas of the game, do indeed have specialties in terms of strategies and techniques. Examples would be Roger [Gracie] with his Jiu Jitsu 101 (great strength and posture combined with his guard pass into mount to submission game), Romulo Barral is great at the spider guard and Cobrinha and Rafael Mendes have been battling with the 50/50 for a while now. Your specialty seems to be leg attacks. Is this something that you have spent time developing and do you train with individuals from certain backgrounds (Samboist for example) to improve this portion of your game?

TH: I don’t train specifically for leg locks or foot locks but I fight with all my body. I think if the body has two arms, two legs and one neck, why limit your attacks. For that reason I attack the legs and feet. Other fighters forget about the lower body, I don’t [Laughs].

KC: Tarsis, thank you so much for taking time to answer my questions. Before we wrap up is there anything else you would like to mention, anyone including friends, family or sponsors you would like to thank?

2010 Meio-Pesado BJJ Mundials podium (left to right): Romulo Barral, Tarsis Humphreys, Eduardo Telles, Gustavo Campos

TH: Thanks to all my family, my girlfriend, friends and to all my sponsors: Maxxcomm, CK Park, Keiko Raca, Quality Nutrition. Also my friends Marcelo and Carlinhos Kalil and Miles Rico and of course my Jiu Jitsu coaches Fabio Gurgel and Romero “Jacaré” Cavalcanti and finally Edmilson Dantas for his conditioning.

Thank you to you too, for this space, and sorry about my English, I hope you understand everything.

KC: Thanks for such a great interview Tarsis! All the best.

Are you a Gi addict? Are you bored of white, blue, black, red, pink, camouflage, navy, tie-dye, and blue rinse kimonos?

Think you can do better? Well, he is your chance people… 

Seymour Yang, editor and owner of the fantastic BJJ blog, Meerkatsu.com has just launched a ‘crazy-ass’ (but fun) competition for us all to design our very own custom, bespoke and original Jiu Jitsu Kimono, where you could see you very own design made in a one-off creation courtesy of UK based manufacturers Tatami Fightwear.

Here is some info on the competition:

1. Official How To Enter page:
   http://crazy-ass-bjj-gi-challenge.blogspot.com/p/how-to-enter.html
2. The story of how this crazy idea came about:
   http://meerkat69.blogspot.com/2010/08/crazy-ass-design-your-own-gi-challenge.html
3. See all the entries so far:
   http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=149631695063160&ref=ts 
4. Blank template (high resolution):
   http://www.flickr.com/photos/meerkatsu/4901246086/sizes/o/in/set-72157624588104727/
    

Get to it guys!

Luca Atalla and Master Helio Gracie

Interview: David Webb, 24th August 2010
Images by kind permission of Luca Atalla

A native of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, Luis Carlos de Moraes Atalla started training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu after being introduced to the art/sport by his brother and world champion Roberto ‘Risada’ Atalla. A student at the Gavea Jiu-Jitsu academy his studies were overseen by such notables as Helio Soneca, Roberto Gordo and Ze Beleza – a fine place to begin.

After some interruptions to training due to university studies Luca eventually became a student of Renzo Gracie at Gracie Ipanema and it was Renzo that introduced Luca to Master Carlos Gracie Jr. and the infectious lifestyle that Luca Atalla so obviously loves. Now a Gracie Barra Black belt and instructor at the Renzo Gracie Academy at Holmdel, New Jersey it was Luca that helped produce the very first and now world famous Gracie Magazine. He has been responsible for turning the publication into a world-renowned resource for interviews, articles and up to the minute news on all things Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

A Brazilian National, Pan-American (Purple belt) and [blue belt] world champion (awarded most technical fighter at inaugural Mundials in 1996) Luca has met, trained and had conversations with many now world famous Jiu-Jitsoka and experienced much through Jiu-Jitsu that most others can only dream of, with that in mind this interview provides a very special insight and I hope you enjoy the interview as much as I have.

Competitive Record:

• Blue belt

Silver medalist Pan-American 1995
World Champion 1996
Most technical athlete World Championship 1996

• Purple belt

Brazilian Interstate Champion 1996
Bronze medalist Brazilian Team Championship 1996
Champion Pan-American 1997
Second place Pan-American 1997
Second place Brazilian Team Championship 1997
Champion Pan-American 1998

• Brown/black belt

Second place Brazilian Team Championship 2001

Interview:

KombatClinic.com: Hi Luca, many thanks for taking time out from your work at Gracie Magazine and indeed your own training on the tatami to give us this opportunity for an interview. Can we start with a little background to Luis Carlos de Moraes Atalla, how you found Jiu Jitsu, your affiliation or instructors and your capacity as founder and CEO at Gracie Magazine and the ‘Nocaute’ Magazine?

Luca Atalla: It is a big pleasure. I am actually slow on the tatami, as I am recovering of a knee surgery and rehabbing, but things are going great. I started Jiu-Jitsu in ’92. My brother got a break for me to train with Helio Soneca, Roberto “Gordo” Correa and Ze Beleza at Gavea Jiu-Jitsu, and I did that in my summer vacation. However the venture only last for three months, as I had a full time job plus was attending to the Engineer course at State University of Rio de Janeiro, so it was impossible to find time to train.

After a year, in the following summer vacation, I started it again under Renzo Gracie, at Gracie Ipanema. I then worked as a system analyst (coding and developing computer software) and Renzo is by far the most curious guy I know. Every field interests him, and at that time he was very interested in computers, so immediately we became very close friends.

I was really frustrated with my college course at that time because for the first time in my entire life I failed one matter, an advanced kind of Mechanics. Not only that, to wake up every day at 5, go to the university, from there to work, back to university and back to sleep wasn’t the best routine one could have and I was tired.

So I remember Renzo at my place and for some reason he got hands in one of my Mechanics tests. He looked at the figures, and the long equations full of integers, and asked me:

“What the hell is that?”

“Mechanics” I answered.

He looked that thing amused for several seconds and stated:

“The only part of Mechanics I understand is armlocks.”

I thought to myself: “You know what, that’s the only part I want to understand as well”. I never went back to a single Engineer class!

A little less than a year from then, Renzo introduced me to Carlinhos (Master Carlos Gracie Jr.), who had bought a personal computer, a printer and a scanner, and wanted some tips on how to use them because he was willing to make “Jornal Gracie” himself. Well, to make a long story short, Carlinhos ended convincing me to resign my job as Computer Analyst and embrace the Jiu-Jitsu lifestyle in a whole. That was in September of 1994, and in November we printed the #6 issue of Jornal Gracie (Carlinhos published five issues of Jornal Gracie with another journalist between 1989 and 1991 but stopped doing so, so since 1994 we are doing it together). Eventually I went back to university and graduate in communication/journalism. 

(Left to right: 1996 Mundials edition of ‘Jornal Gracie’, 1st edition of GRACIEMAG, Latest edition of GRACIEMAG showing Fedor Emelianenko vs. Fabricio Werdum)

KC: As a Gracie Barra black belt, I believe you a currently resident in the US, which academy are you currently instructing at and whom do you consider your instructor/coach at present?

LA: Yes, I am living in New Jersey since 2007 where I teach at Renzo Gracie Academy at Holmdel.

As for my background, Renzo awarded me the blue belt, but since then Carlinhos awarded all my belts. Many people at Gracie Barra taught me a lot, specially my teammates, but of course I consider Carlos and Renzo my main mentors.

KC: In 2001 I had the pleasure of hosting Joao Pedro Santos at my academy that I believe once worked alongside you at Gracie Magazine. I remember him explaining that Gracie Magazine was far more than a magazine dedicated to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and should be thought of as more of a lifestyle magazine. For those of our readers that haven’t heard of or indeed read a copy of Gracie Magazine, would you care to explain the history, format, content and objectives of the publication?

LA: JP is like my brother, we worked together from 1998 to 2003, and he’s doing a great job of Jiu-Jitsu expansion in Denmark and other North European countries.

As for the GRACIEMAG’s objectives, we keep the same objectives Carlos had when he created Jornal Gracie. Our main mission is as simple as to promote Jiu-Jitsu. And also to complement the teaching people have on their academies. Because Jiu-Jitsu is actually a lifestyle, so to learn Jiu-Jitsu is actually to learn its lifestyle. Jiu-Jitsu is not only the techniques, the moves. Is the way you act in life. GRACIEMAG is kind of a mobile academy.

Some people have the chance to learn Jiu-Jitsu on full at their academies, but most of them don’t, because people don’t have time to spend at the academy as much as needed to take everything Jiu-Jitsu has to offer. So we think we can help with GRACIEMAG.

GRACIE Magazine was launched in 1996 as an improvement of the late Jornal Gracie. Since then its format has changed a lot – and so its name, as we call it now simply GRACIEMAG. In 2006 the magazine become bilingual (written in Portuguese and English) and so we could expand it to the international market, but now it’s over. Yes, you have it on first hands. From now on, the international edition will be published only in English, and the Brazilian edition only in Portuguese.

I have also another announcement to make: the International edition will carry a MMA supplement called “CHOKE MMA”. It is the English version of another title we publish on Brazil called NOCAUTE (Portuguese word for KO).

You have asked also about GRACIEMAG’s content, and it is really hard to describe it in words. I am more than suspicious to say that, but I strongly recommend one to put hands in one of our issues to taste it. It is a mix of journalism and teaching of Jiu-Jitsu. When I say teaching is in a broad way, I mean it is techniques, concepts, and philosophy of Jiu-Jitsu, as we understand it.

(Left to right: 1st edition of ‘Nocaute’ magazine and the brand new magazine ‘Choke MMA’ which is released next month)

KC: Is the Magazine available at newsstands across Brazil and the US or is it just a subscription-based publication?

LA: Since the beginning of this year (2010), you can find GRACIEMAG at newsstands across US, in the best bookstores such as Borders, Barnes and Noble, Books-A-Million etc. In Brazil, the magazine is across the newsstands since 1996 when Jornal Gracie became Gracie Magazine.

You can also find GRACIEMAG around the world at the academies members of the GMA (GRACIEMAG Association).
The list of all schools that carry GRACIEMAG is found at http://gma.graciemag.com/gma-list/ and, of course, everyone can subscribe to GRACIEMAG no matter where he is at http://shop.graciemag.com

Since I mention the GRACIEMAG Association (GMA), I would like to invite people to its website (http://gma.graciemag.com) to learn a little more about this project. It is a community we founded to unite Jiu-Jitsu around the world. Because Jiu-Jitsu usually organized by teams and it is hard to make the information, knowledge and people’s achievements to travel through these “blocked” team-communities. On the other hand, at GMA every flag is welcome, and there we try to use our experience as communicators and our vehicles (GRACIEMAG and GRACIEMAG.com) to unite the Jiu-Jitsu community.

KC: Having met some of the greats from the world of Jiu Jitsu, formed very close personal relationships with the likes of Renzo, Rillion, Carlos Jr. and of course Grandmaster Helio Gracie and also being involved in bringing serious talent to life through the pages of Gracie Magazine are there any that have truly inspired you and do you have any favourite interviews and or articles that you have been involved in?

LA: They all have a great impact in my life. If you realize that, in the beginning, for almost two years I worked on Carlos Jr’s living room (and his house was an one bedroom house!). So I mostly lived the same way of life he lived at that time, the way I ate, working literally besides the academy, being there really often. So the influence he had on me was deep.

I never lost contact to Renzo as well, even though in 1996 he moved to the US. Out of all things I learned with Renzo I guess the most important example I have is always to carry a smile in your face, no matter what’s happening. Renzo is a very unique character, always helping people and being nice with everyone, no matter what position and closeness the person has with him, or how rich or poor a person is. He is by far the most altruist person I ever met.

I can go on and on telling how much the Gracie’s inspired me, from Helio to Rillion, from Rickson to Roger, but I think the most important thing is always look for something positive and unique a person has and then try to “put it on your game”, I mean, game here being a metaphor to the way you act in life. If you do so, you will find a way to be influenced by everybody, because everybody has its positive traits.

KC: The Brazilian Jiu Jitsu community as a whole are very keen on coming together and drawing on the successes of athletes from Jiu Jitsu backgrounds when it comes to victories in other outlets, mixed martial arts especially. I must admit I find some rather ambiguous but others far more clear-cut. One recent example to illustrate my point was the victory by Fabricio Werdum over a once perceived invincible Fedor Emelianenko at a ‘Strikeforce’ event. “Jiu Jitsu beats Fedor!” was one headline I read.

We moved away from the whole style versus style mixed martial arts event a very long time ago and all MMA athletes now understand that you MUST be skilled at all ranges to compete at the highest level. Do you ever foresee an acceptance that although Fabricio Werdum caught in Fedor in a triangle choke to finish the bout and indeed it was this type of fighting from the back that won Royce Gracie so much attention back in 1993, that there is no longer a ‘black and white’ division between what is Jiu Jitsu and what is not?

LA: Look, I think GRACIEMAG carried this line [laughs] I agree that we are long gone from the time people were representing single martial arts styles in vale-tudo competitions. However, is good to keep the Jiu-Jitsu pride intact, so I don’t see like it’s a really bad thing to claim a victory to Jiu-Jitsu. To be honest, every single fighter competing in MMA owes so much to Jiu-Jitsu. And I owe so much to Jiu-Jitsu myself, so I will be always doing my best to promote the art.

Luca on receiving his black belt in BJJ at Gracie Barra

KC: Great answer. You have been involved with Jiu Jitsu and the coverage of the sport for a very long time now, in your view how has the popularity of BJJ changed over the years taking into consideration the inception of the Ultimate Fighting Championships in 1993 and the subsequent availability of other MMA events where BJJ plays such a huge role in the fighters skill set, the inaugural Mundials event in 1996 and where we stand today with Jiu Jitsu as a total worldwide entity?

LA: Well, I started on Jiu-Jitsu before the UFC, and I can’t tell the common tale of being a fan before I started practicing the art. Of course, many things collaborated to this huge growth in popularity Jiu-Jitsu has experienced in the last 15 years, like the UFC, the other MMA events, the BJJ tournaments, and of course the globalization. I can humbly say that even GRACIEMAG had a role on it.

However I see the MMA and BJJ tournaments and everything else I cited simply as business cards. They help to bring people to Jiu-Jitsu. However, at the end of the day, people stay training and fall in love because Jiu-Jitsu is wonderful. So, once you are able to make a person to experience it in the right way, chances are he will keep doing it. And that is the real reason Jiu-Jitsu is growing a lot, and it is just the beginning. As more people become aware, more it will grow, I am hundred percent assured of that.

KC: Expanding on that question how much further can its popularity improve.

Does Jiu Jitsu need a platform such as the Olympics to take it to the next level or do we already have enough of a legacy and history with the Gracie family and infrastructure created by bodies such as the IBJJF and the CBJJ on which to build and grow this popularity?

LA: Look, I know I will be very polemic with this statement, and this is my sole opinion, it is not the GRACIEMAG opinion or the Gracie’s opinion or the IBJJF’s opinion, but for me Olympics is such a twentieth century thing! Other than having a few people proud of their medals, or have some government companies sponsoring it, I don’t see any benefit of Jiu-Jitsu being included in the Olympics. I will explain why:

As Thomas Friedman wrote: “the world is now flat”, so chances are you are closer with a person of same tastes in the other side of the planet than with your next door neighbour. So basically I think this format of a dispute of countries is really bad.

Why cheer for my country, if the athlete I like the most is from other country? Besides that, what’s the point of a country being better than another country? Expanding this thought, I guess that kind of pride is the reason for wars. But projecting it to Jiu-Jitsu it is even more complicated. Let’s say you are a British. Chances are you are cheering for Roger on the Worlds even though he’s Brazilian. Or, let’s say you train in a branch of Alliance on Bahrain. Chances are you will root for Ian McPherson, and you don’t care he’s American. So the way Jiu-Jitsu is organized, your team matter more than your nationality. Competitions are really good to improve the technique aspects of Jiu-Jitsu, but confronting countries won’t help on that matter. Besides that, I see lots of people having a very good life teaching Jiu-Jitsu, having well succeeded academies, even people who didn’t shine in competition. And I don’t see in individual Olympic sports people being able to earn decent money by teaching, unless they are the rare 0.00001% who conquered a medal.

Olympics would bring more exposure? Yes, every four years. But Jiu-Jitsu is much more than a sport. And it is doing really well without being an Olympic sport. In short, it is great enough to grow by itself. Jiu-Jitsu does not need subsidies.

KC: At present we have a number of champion competitors from Jiu Jitsu who have developed and produced a highly impressive string of results and titles. Records have been broken as a result and those Jiu Jitsoka have developed legacies that will remain for a very long time.

The likes of Rubens Charles with 4 world titles (seeking his fifth) and Roger Gracie with his three absolute Mundials titles spring to mind more than others. Do you think we are entering a renaissance period in the history of Jiu Jitsu where the athletes such as Roger, Abmar Barbosa, Kayron Gracie, Rafael Mendes, Michael Langhi, Romulo Barral and Tarsis Humphreys are indeed taking the technical aspects of Jiu Jitsu to a new, heightened level?

LA: I am not a romantic guy, “oh, Pele was the best soccer player ever, and never anyone will play like him”. I believe in improvement through generations in every field of the human knowledge. Even mathematics doesn’t stop to improve. So why the older Jiu-Jitsu practitioners would be better than the newer ones? I guess the best Jiu-Jitsu practitioner will be always the one in the next generation.

With his royal Highness Sheikh Tahnoon at Abu Dhabi

KC: Do you believe improvements at world-level has much to do with the advances in Jiu Jitsu techniques per se (the X-guard, 50/50 guard for example) and time afforded to mat practice or because there is so much in the way of cross training and strength & conditioning nowadays, allowing the athletes at the top time to address all specific aspects of their preparation and game?

LA: I believe it’s a mix. But you have to understand than nowadays there are lots of different sources and the globalization makes easier to share knowledge. So if Cobrinha is doing something new, chances are Rafael will be aware of it very quick and so everyone else. With YouTube, DVD’s, books, magazines, and more and more people training, more and more new things will be developed. I don’t believe there is any limit to what can be invented. That said, is much easier to become a better competitor if you specialize yourself in a handful of moves because that way you will repeat these moves more and will perform them better.

KC: One such athlete that has taken Jiu Jitsu to ‘another level’ is the three times absolute Mundials champion, Roger Gracie. I believe it was after Roger’s victory over Ronaldo Jacaré Souza at the ADCC superfight event in 2005 that Rickson [Gracie] announced, “The [Gracie] family now has a new champion.” Being a guy that has interviewed many champions and undoubted followed both Roger’s personification and as a fan of Jiu Jitsu, the life and tributes of Rickson do you believe Roger’s accomplishments (accomplished and future) has or will deliver such a legend as that of Rickson?

LA: I am not aware of that Rickson’s statement, but I think it is even unfair to compare people of different generations. Rickson had his best time when there were not many tournaments as there is now. Roger had better, more professional opponents and competed much more times than Rickson. As you said, Rickson is a legend, a true legend. But Roger’s record speaks for itself.

KC: I recently conducted an interview with the 2010 Meio-Pesado Mundials champion Tarsis Humphreys where I asked Tarsis if his statement that “Roger is doing different Jiu Jitsu to the rest of us” after his Absolute loss was true and indeed what he meant by that. As a guy that has covered many events and Jiu Jitsu personalities through the pages of Gracie Magazine how impressed are you with Roger Gracie and his seeming invincibility at this present time?

LA: He is really impressive. He’s the result of 100 years of knowledge applied to a guy big and strong and cold and confident.

KC: In the same Tarsis Humphreys interview, Tarsis listed some of the features that individual athletes would have to improve to reach Roger’s level of expertise and ultimately prevail against him on the mat. One of these was to have better Judo.

I believe Roger spends a great deal of time working his Judo with the likes of 1992 Olympic Silver medallist Ray Stevens among others, indeed Judo and BJJ have quite an affinity and mutual respect at the top end here in the UK. I also know Saulo and Xande Ribeiro are two further athletes from BJJ that cross training to help their game and hold regular classes in Judo at the University of Jiu Jitsu in San Diego. How is this practice in Brazil, do many of the top guys practice Judo as an adjunct to Jiu Jitsu?

LA: Look; it is pretty obvious that you have a better chance to beat Roger if you take him down. That was how he had his few loses in the last 7 years!

Have you seen a high level takedown training session? No matter how good people are, they fall. If I am better than you on the ground, I will beat you 10 out of 10 times. If I am better than you on takedowns, I will take you down more than you will take me down, but still you will be able to take me down. So better to take the game to a field where the supremacy counts less (same thinking can be applied to striking – Did you see the UFC 117? Anderson Silva is much better than Sonnen with his hands, but he went down in the very first round and the fight almost ended there).

Besides that, Jiu-Jitsu and Judo they are actually the same thing with different rules, right? So why judo guys are better than Jiu-Jitsu guys on takedown’s game? Because they train it more. Like I said before, the more you expand your game, the less specialist you will become. So it’s impossible for Roger to achieve the level Olympic judo guys have in takedowns because he’s been spending his time on mats to practice a broader game. If you, in the other hand, train only takedowns and find a way to avoid his ground game, you have chances to win. It won’t be easy though.

As for cross training, I guess it depends of your game. The late Rolls Gracie trained judo a lot, and Royler was part of the Rio de Janeiro state team, so it’s not a really new thing. Some people do, some not. Márcio “Pé de Pano” Cruz dominated Jiu-Jitsu on his prime (early 2000s) pulling everyone to his guard.

Hard at work in the GRACIEMAG newsroom in 2005

KC: Pretty much all world-class Jiu Jitsu athletes train much in the same way as professional sportsmen and women nowadays in terms of nutrition, adequate rest and support systems. I agree that they still must conduct seminars and regular classes to fill salaries in order to compete at the highest level and indeed require sponsorship to assist in other areas of competitive preparation. Over the last few weeks we have all been reading about the proposed match offered by Bray Devours where a purse of $10,000 dollars has been offered to the victor of a match between Rafael Mendes and Rubens Charles.

In you opinion, does Jiu Jitsu need more ‘submission only’ match ups such as this to move it into the mainstream and facilitate a more professional era for the top-level guys?

LA: Nah, I think Jiu-Jitsu will move to mainstream when everybody practices it. Because no matter what rules you use, only practitioners will understand it.

But I think this challenge would be really entertaining for us who like Jiu-Jitsu.

KC: I am going to put you on the spot now. If the above match does go ahead, how do you see it ending? Cobrinha or Mendes?

LA: Competing at their level is mostly mental.

I guess who enters with more confidence will win. Rafael refusing the match I think built Cobrinha’s confidence. However, the only decisive match they had up to today was at 2009 ADCC. There, Rafael was a move ahead, technically speaking.

KC: And whilst on the subject, as a fan are there any match-ups you would love to see besides Cobrinha vs. Mendes?

LA: I am always willing to watch any good Jiu-Jitsu match. So no matter who they put against each other I will be willing to watch.

KC: For a guy who spends a great deal of time offering ‘food for thought’ to thousands of readers through the pages of Gracie Magazine and also someone who has interviewed literally the ‘who’s who’ of the Jiu Jitsu world it would be cool to get your opinion on the winners from the 2010 Mundials, those competing at the top end of Jiu Jitsu competition. Could you give us just a sentence or two on the following athletes based on what their Jiu Jitsu means to you and or what impresses you about their game? 1. Rodrigo Cavaca, 2. Roger Gracie, 3. Bernado Faria, 4. Tarsis Humphreys, 5. Marcelo Garcia, 6. Michael Langhi, 7. Rafael Mendes, 8. Pablo Silva and 9. Bruno Malfacine.

Luca Atalla:

1. Rodrigo Cavaca improved a lot and was really impressive at this World, only losing to Roger Gracie (twice). I think if he develops his defence up to the level he has his attack he will be one of the toughest guys around. His game doesn’t match with Roger’s though.
2. GRACIEMAG called him the best competitor ever. And I think that was an easy call.
3. Bernardo is really young and specialist. His game reminds me Gordo’s (Roberto Correa) game, but with more power.
4. You will never count Tarsis down. He is really game, no matter if his opponent is in theory better than him.
5. Garcia is another specialist. The way he performs his couple of sweeps and guard pass and bring everyone to play his game is amazing. He trains a lot and may be a stone for the upcoming medium athletes for a while. There’s a very talented field of athletes at this category coming, though.
6. I don’t see someone passing Langhi’s guard and, in Jiu-Jitsu, this is one of the best compliments you can have.
7. Pure talent. He is a way better than the 50/50 guard that he become famous for. He is so young and technical that I bet he will break Cobrinha and Royler’s records.
8. Pablo is really good and strong, but I think his teammate, Samuel [Braga] is even better than him. This is a tough category with Guilherme Mendes and a few other guys around looking for the crown.
9. Bruno is the first good guard passer rooster I ever seen. He has a tough competition in Caio Terra, but his results are proven better so far.

With Renzo Gracie on set for the shooting of the Pride Fighting Championships video game

KC: And how about four Jiu Jitsoka that always pop into conversation when Jiu Jitsu history is discussed? 1. Renzo Gracie, 2. Rickson Gracie, 3. Rolls Gracie, 4. Carlson Gracie

LA: These guys are all legends in a different way. Renzo has been in all situations one can be in a fight, as a fighter and coach, and knows everything about it. Rickson has a very deep philosophical and technical knowledge. Rolls is considered for many to be 10 years ahead of everyone at his time. Carlson was such a character; he liked to win more than everyone I know. His role on the way the knowledge was spread outside of the Gracie academy was huge, and so was his role as the family champion at his time. We all miss him.

KC: Luca, once again thank you so much for taking time to answer my questions. Before we wrap up is there anything else you would like to mention, that I might have forgotten, anyone you would like to thank?

LA: I guess the conversation has been long enough; your readers at this point want to move forward. So I will give you guys a break. I thank you for the opportunity. Cheers.

KC: Thank you for such a thought provoking and insightful interview, much ‘food for thought’ indeed!

David Onuma talks to The Fighting Photographer

David Onuma is a complete martial artist, who combines Brazilian Jiu Jitsu with the Filipino Marts Arts and runs the Combined Fighting Systems Academy in London.  David has trained with the best in the world in martial arts and is constantly striving to improve both himself and his students and has took some time out of his very busy schedule to answer questions about his life as a martial artist.

Carl Fisher: David, huge congrats on receiving your Black Belt earlier this year; how did it feel to receive the belt and where did you get the promotion?

DO: Thanks a lot Carl; it was a great honour to receive it.  I had attended the European Championships 2010 to fight at middleweight Brown Belt in my division.  I had originally planned to fight in my division as well as the absolute but decided against fighting in the absolute in the end.  I was on the podium receiving my medal when Thiago “Monstro” Borges tied the Black Belt around me on behalf of Ricardo Vieira and Rodrigo Cabral.  Simply receiving a BJJ Black Belt is a fantastic achievement but getting it on the podium in that way in front of my peers at the European Championship is something that I never would have imagined. 

CF: How did you view Jiu Jitsu and your understanding of it as you moved through each of the belt colours?

DO: Well my BJJ journey to Black Belt has been a long one compared to others.  I received my Blue Belt from John Machado in 1999, my Purple Belt from Roger Brooking in September 2005, my Brown Belt from Ricardo Vieira in March 2008 and finally my Black Belt on the 31st January 2010.  I was never really a White Belt for long because I obtained my Blue Belt after training extensively with John Machado on a tour he did of the UK back then as well as a tour of Italy.  Whilst we did complete his basic programme covering all of the Blue Belt material, I think he felt a bit sorry for me at the end of training and decided to give it to me before he returned to the USA.  The problem was when I returned to the UK as you will know, there were no BJJ schools around at that time and at that stage I would say that I was one of a handful of people ranked as Blue Belt in the country.  Because of this and my other interests, I effectively gave up training with the Gi even though I did do submission grappling and I only started training again with the Gi when I joined Roger Brooking’s Academy some time at the end of 2002.  It was in fact like starting as a White Belt again, because I was caned by all the Blue Belts and even the White Belts gave me problems.  The most significant period of development I would say was in-between Blue Belt and Purple Belt and that was when I really began to understand what Jiu Jitsu was all about. Whilst I have obviously learnt new techniques between the various belts, it has been more a case of refinement and deeper understanding as time has gone on.

David & Jean Jacques Macahado in Los Angles in 2000

CF: Were there any epiphanies through these belts; when the clouds parted and all of the secrets of Jiu Jitsu came down from the skies?  Or was the secret merely, train, “train, train, train”?

DO: It’s funny that you should ask that question.  If I was to get a pound for every time that people have said that I was a “natural athlete” I would be very rich.  I have always believed in “intelligent combat”.  The majority of people in life always tend to think that hard work automatically equals results, and I am afraid that that is simply not true.  In business terms if you have to work very hard to earn your money then actually you are probably doing something wrong. 
The point I am making is that there is nothing wrong with hard work but whatever work you do you must do intelligently in order to maximise the results of that time that you have invested.  There have been times when I have been taught a particular technique which has really helped me or changed my game, but the things that helped me the most have been the principles that I have been taught in any particular situation.  As a result of this I am able to recall all the different principles taught to me by various teachers I have had over time because of the effects that they had on my game.  Fortunately that is still an ongoing process.

CF: What team do you train with now and who is your chief instructor?

DO: Politics is something that I am usually very keen to avoid because as you know it creates so many problems but I am a member of the Checkmat team and the chief instructors are Ricardo and Leo Vieira.  The team has been through a series of name changes over the past few years and certainly since I have been training with them, but effectively I have always recognised them as the team heads.  The Checkmat team is very well established in the world and the UK now has something like 10 UK based Black Belts with the majority being in London.

CF: Where do you teach now David?

DO: The majority of my training is done with close friends and other practitioners and the majority of my time is taken up with my full-time job as a lawyer and my other personal commitments.  However I do find time to share my knowledge with various groups either in classes or at seminars.  Details of whatever I am doing can always be found on my blog.

CF: Combined Fighting Systems; when did this come into being?

DO: I would like to begin by actually explaining what CFS is.  CFS is just a name that I chose to host the arts that I teach and the people that are associated with.  The very first school I ever had in a church hall back in 1986 was the Women’s School of Martial Arts and Self Defence.  I later coined the phrase “The Garage” as that is where I was training and finally settled on the term CFS maybe 10 years ago.  I do not train or teach ‘my style’.  What I do is pass on the knowledge that I have in relation to each of the arts that I am qualified to teach.  I teach each art in its pure form therefore enabling individuals to gain certification or qualification in those arts.  However in keeping with the principles of Sigung Bruce Lee and Master Teacher Guro Dan Inosanto I have my own personal expression as to how I use these arts in combination and I try to help people develop their own personal expressions.  It becomes dangerous in my view when teachers put together a series of techniques or training matters from different styles, create a syllabus and then teach it to a student telling them that that is what they need to do.  All that happens in those circumstances is they teach students to be clones of the teacher and it may not even be the right thing.  It would be impossible for any of my students to be a clone of me quite simply because they are not me and they have not had my direct training influences but of course they will pick up things which other people will be able to identify as coming from me. 

CF: Do you have any people at CFS who have been instrumental in shaping CFS as it stands today?

DO: CFS has particular training methods, which make it in my view unique.  I do not say that we are the best Martial Artists out there even though we clearly hold our own, but I think what sets us apart is our ability to structure and organise the training and learning which puts students in the best possible environment to succeed.  CFS has become more recognised by the fantastic job that the authorised instructors have done personally and with their students.  Within the Filipino Martial Arts we have many high ranked instructors who are skilled in competing and teaching.  The best stick fighter that we have ever produced was Guro Roger Barnes.  Unfortunately he passed away in March 2008 completely unexpectedly leaving a big hole in all of our lives.  He was the World, European and many times British Stick Fighting Champion and his personal students have also gone on to replicate those same titles.  More recently we have Carl Jackson who was recently promoted to associate level and just came back from the World Championships in Mexico with a silver medal in the single stick division.  As far as BJJ/grappling is concerned we have Blue Belt and current British Open Champion Corey Donoghue who is going from strength to strength.  He has taken Gold in SENI, fought at the Europeans, won at Grapplers Showdown and so on and so forth.  Steve Payne has only been involved in BJJ for about 19 months and has already won the European Championship two times, one at White Belt and one at Blue Belt (2009 and 2010).  I thank all of these guys for putting their trust and faith in me and helping others to learn of our existence.

CF: You have an eye-watering amount of Martial Arts teaching credentials; can you tell the readers when you started your path on the Martial Arts?

DO: This September I am going to be 43 and I started training with my older brother who had a background in Taekwondo and Hapkido when I was 12.  I then started training in Kickboxing with Master Kingsley Morgan and at the age of 16 I started Wing Chun.  Along my journey I have studied the Filipino Martial Arts, Silat, the Jun Fan Arts and of course boxing and Thai boxing.  The teaching credentials that I have obtained simply flowed from remaining consistent in my training of each of these arts. 

CF: Who are your influences within the Filipino Arts that you practise?

DO: My four biggest influences in the Filipino Martial Arts have been Guro Bob Breen, Guro Terry Barnett, Guro Dan Inosanto and Guro Desmond Watson.  Whilst I have trained with other Filipino Martial Arts teachers, these four are the ones that have really helped me to understand different aspects of those arts both historically and combatitively.

David & Guro Dan Inosanto in 2008

CF: Bob Breen and Dan Inosanto are two of the most well respected teachers in JKD/Filipino circles; do you keep in touch with these guys and others in their field?

DO: Master Bob Breen I would describe as my Martial Arts mentor and father.  He was the one that literally opened all the doors for me in terms of Martial Arts training and also knowledge wise.  In fact I actually got into grappling because of him and my introduction to Guro Dan Inosanto came as a result of him.  He was ever so kind as to share a lot of his time with me over the years on a private level and that really helped to accelerate my understanding of Martial Arts.  Not only did he train me privately, he took me with him to a number of seminars all around the world which enabled me to see him in action, learn some more things and also to meet a whole new group of different people. 

As much as he is well known and respected throughout the world, I can still honestly say that the majority of people really don’t know how good he is.  It has been a privilege for me to teach at his academy and to be a student of his and I first started teaching at his academy in 1998 continuing to this present day.  In March 2008 he honoured me by promoting me to a level of Full Instructor, which is the highest rank that he has ever given to any of his students.  I think I ought to make it clear at this stage that Guro Bob has produced so many world class students and almost anybody that you can think of in the UK who has become recognised in the Filipino Martial Arts and JKD has had the tutelage of Bob Breen at some point or another.  I am fortunate to be one of that very elite group of his top students and I certainly do not claim to be the best.  When Guro promoted me to the level of full instructor, he made the point of stating that he felt that of all of his students, I was the one who most closely knows and understands his personal style and approach.  So far as Guro Inosanto is concerned I have been on his instructor programme since 1999.  He remains as an inspiration to me and to countless of many others just because he is who he is.  Even at the age of 74 (July 2010) his work ethic would embarrass students even a quarter of his age.  Again a lot of people don’t realise really how skilled and knowledgeable he is.  Even within the BJJ world, whilst his is not the first name that would come to your lips for obvious reasons, but I can tell you that he was promoted to Black Belt in I believe November of 1999 and is still training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu three to five times a week even now.  Even though he has trained with all of the Machado brothers extensively he has extended his knowledge to train with many, many Black Belts (many of who are his junior) but continues to train in order to improve his knowledge.  When you have somebody like that around who still continues to learn and is of that age and experience, it becomes very difficult to start thinking that you know it all because plainly you don’t.

CF: Which art is your number one favourite?

DO: [Laughs] “Now you are just trying to get me in trouble!”  I honestly cannot answer that question because they all give me different things.  The Filipino Martial Arts, particularly the weapons’ training really helps to develop the eye and brain speed.  This is because you are dealing with weapons that travel upwards of up to 80 mph and you can’t afford to let your attention wander or you could be seriously hurt.  There is obviously also a very functional aspect to the weapons training given that most confrontations in the street now involve the use of a weapon and more than one person.  I obviously love the striking arts because they are essential and necessary in any form of combat and it is necessary to keep those basic skills sharp.  As far as BJJ is concerned, it is great because it is an art that helps to keep me in shape and most of the time you can test the skill in sparring in all competition without the risk of any serious injury.  BJJ in my opinion is far from a complete martial art on its own, but because of the other martial arts that I study, I have never bothered to concentrate on the “self-defence” aspects of BJJ because on the whole those are not the methods I would use to defend myself.  As you can see Carl I used the politician’s tactic and didn’t really answer the question!

CF: How do you keep on top of all your training in the various arts?  Do you have any free time?

DO: Do I have any free time: No, that’s the simplest question you’ve asked me so far!  Keeping on top of the various arts has been difficult but again in a sense not so difficult.  They say once you learn how to ride a bike, you never forget and therefore I would say the secret is to learn how to ride the bike properly first.  This is what I have done in relation to all the martial arts that I have studied.

I have spent time with them more particularly when I was younger, studying in-depth and prepared to spend as much time as possible with each art to become proficient.  It was never really my intention in any art particularly to get the Black Belt, “as the goal”.  I am not saying that I never wanted to obtain a Black Belt or instructor level status but more important to me was to be good enough to achieve that level.  This is why for example with BJJ it took me 12 years to get my Black Belt because I was not training in it full-time five times a week as my only art even though I have placed a heavy percentage of my time on it over the past few years.  I have also tried to see the common links between all of the arts so that when I practise striking, I do so having regard to how I might use it in boxing, kick/Thai boxing, MMA or even on the street. 

CF: You have an outstanding BJJ competition career; what have been your most memorable moments on the path to Black Belt?

DO: Thanks Carl but I think you are being a little bit kind with reference to my competition career.  If the truth be told I have not really done lots of competitions over the years particularly due to time constraints, living my life generally and having regards to my priorities, but one thing I always wanted to do in relation to BJJ was to improve myself in any way possible and that also included testing myself in competition.  There are many, many, many practitioners in this country who certainly compete more than I do and in fact are probably better competitors but then again that’s their journey and this is mine.  Having said that there are many BJJ practitioners in this country who hold ranks of Purple Belt and above who have never competed and that is something that they have to deal with themselves.  In my view, subject to any physical ailment, every BJJ practitioner should compete at least once or twice at each belt regardless of the outcome because it is a necessary part of the BJJ journey.  I also feel it’s a bit difficult to try to explain to a student how she or he should react under the pressure of a competition and what kind of problems they might encounter if that instructor has never had those pressures themselves.  I would guess that my most memorable moment on the path to the Black Belt was winning my first European championship when I attended in 2008 and fought as a Purple Belt.  I was encouraged to go and fight by my good friend and Roger Gracie Black Belt Nick Brooks who gave me the courage to go out there and put myself on the line and so I did.  I am ever so grateful to him for that because I am not sure that I would have actually gone to fight without him pushing me.  I was then fortunate enough to win the following year as a Brown Belt and then also in 2010 to take the Brown Belt title for the second time. I have fought and won at every belt prior to achieving my Black Belt save for white belt, as I wasn’t really one for long.

David receiving his black belt on the poduim of the 2010 European Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Championships

CF: Do you change any part of your training when heading for a competition?

DO: Yes I obviously increase my cardio training and centre my game around the principle things that I plan to do in competition.  Obviously I make sure that my diet is what it should be and basically I try to keep myself in prime shape for the competition.

CF: Are you going to compete as a Black Belt this year?

DO: I will of course compete as a Black Belt but at this moment in time I am not sure when that is going to be.

CF: Have you competed in other Martial Arts formats?

DO: I competed in the British Kung Fu Association competitions when I was younger and I have done some amateur inter-club MMA competitions whilst in the States. 

CF: BJJ training and competing can take you round the globe; where have you trained and competed abroad and where is your favourite destination?

DO: I have trained in many places around the world.  I have been fortunate to travel to most of Europe including Belgium, France, Italy, Portugal and Germany and I have also trained in Canada, San Francisco and Los Angeles.  I really enjoy going to Canada because that is where one of my best friends and Filipino Martial Arts teacher Guro Desmond Watson lives. 

CF: You have recently trained with Leo Vieira in June this year; what was this like and who else was there?

DO: Yes Leo was recently over in the UK.  He took a couple of seminars for the Checkmat team.  One was at their London HQ at Diesel Gym and the other one was at a Checkmat gym in Rochester.  There were several Black Belts there including Monstro, Eduardo Azevedo, Claudio and others.  He taught Gi and No-Gi.  It was a fantastic seminar and then I also managed to train with him in a private lesson the following day. Funnily enough even though he taught me some really useful stuff for my game, it was what he told me more than what he showed me, which stuck. He said that every year he works on a new position and its variable for a period of one year, and then after he has perfected it, he teaches it to all his students. It really made so much sense and I have already started to incorporate his approach into my training already.

CF: What’s your connection with Mill Hill David?

DO: Mill Hill Jiu Jitsu is the academy of my good friend Nick Brooks.  We have been friends for a long time and have been training together as friends since we were both Blue Belts even though at different schools.  Neither of us can stand politics.  Through our friendship, I have taught many times at his academy because it is close to me and very often he shared techniques with my group of guys.  I am currently the Head MMA coach at their academy and helping to develop that side of things. 

CF: You have a conditioning coach, Andrew Marshall; how long have you been training with him?  What benefits have you gained from your time with him?  Has the training helped improve your BJJ and other arts?

DO: Strength and conditioning training is very much an under-rated part of Martial Arts.  It obviously has become more and more important because competing has become more and more important and more professional and therefore people have had to adapt their training to that kind of level, however it is still far from something everybody does.  The first person who really got me into conditioning and training is my very close friend and student Corey Donoghue (Doninho).  He is an ex-professional football player and also a football coach.  His never give up attitude has really influenced me and even though I was his Martial Arts coach he became my conditioning mentor.  That then led me to train with Leon Baillie of Highgate Fitness Studios.  I started to train with him on a one-to-one basis and he took my fitness to another level pushing me harder and harder, but I was unable to do as much as I would like to do with him because of the pressure of timetables.  For the past six months or so I have been training with “Android” Andrew Marshall.  I am not one to sing praises easily but this guy is absolutely fantastic.  His knowledge and understanding of fitness, strength and conditioning is far beyond my comprehension.  No two sessions are ever the same and being a Kettlebell Champion and Martial Artists himself, he is able to appreciate the sort of things that I need.
Training with him has increased my strength, stamina and explosiveness.  This has definitely crossed over to all of my Martial Arts training.  He is the head S & C coach and joint owner of the Mill Hill Combat and Conditioning Centre and anybody looking to improve their fitness and get a better understanding of their body would do well to contact him. 

CF: You have embraced the Internet and have a well-followed blog. How do you find the blog as a way of communicating with the outside world?

Very simply it’s a great way to communicate and keep in touch with people that you obviously wouldn’t see on a daily basis.  It’s also great for sharing information with people who have an interest in what you do.  Generally any video material I have is posted on my blog because that way if people are interested in me or in what I do they can go there and look for it rather than posting it myself on a YouTube account (not that there is anything wrong with YouTube). 

CF: You post on the EFN Forum as ‘Malandro’; any meaning behind the name?

DO: It is the BJJ nickname given to me by 9 times World Champion Ricardo Vieira in 2004.  Unfortunately Malandro, which is Portuguese, can have a negative as well as a positive meaning.  He told me that he was giving me that name because he felt that my game was well rounded and that I was adaptable to all situations and therefore I took him at face value, unless of course secretly he was trying to tell me that I was dishonest and a scoundrel. 

CF: You’ve had some guest instructors on your blog in the Technique of the Month section, can you name a few of your learned colleagues?

DO: For those that have appeared on the blog so far in relation to BJJ as guest instructors include Nick Brooks, Alan “Finfou” Do Nascimentl and Eduardo Azevedo.  There will be many, many more as time goes on and I have footage of Leo Vieira to upload.

CF: Are you active on the seminar circuit?

DO: I do as much as I can time willing and also subject to demand. 
If anybody is interested they are more than free to contact me and will find my details at the foot of this interview.

CF: Moving to BJJ again David; do you feel that the art has a high dropout rate, especially at the White Belt/Blue Belt stage? 

DO: Many people get to Blue Belt and then give up, after years of training and dedication, spending a lot of time and money on their training.  I know this from my own experience as a coach and from talking to other coaches unseen, which I think is unfortunate to see all that hard work going to waste.  What is your opinion on this?  Have you had similar experiences yourself?

I am not necessarily sure that there is a higher dropout rate in BJJ then there is to other arts but I suppose it might seem like it mainly because it takes longer in BJJ to progress to the next skill or belt level and therefore if somebody leaves it is usually more noticeable.  In other arts where it can be easier to obtain a Black Belt people still drop out but then they tend to stay towards gaining their Black Belt, as they know that there is probably a realistic opportunity for them to get it in the not too distant future whereas this is obviously not the case with BJJ.  It is always a waste when anybody invests time and effort into something and then drops out but then if it isn’t for them then so be it. 

I would hope that nobody drops out of BJJ simply because they didn’t like it or because they didn’t get on well with their teacher but as I say, it does happen.  I tend not to worry too much about those who drop out but rather those that remain. 

CF: Have you ever hit a plateau in your training, and, or teaching, and if so, what have you done to overcome them?

DO: Oh yes, in both.  It has happened to me many times and sometimes it can seem extremely difficult to overcome them particularly when you yourself don’t know the answer.  The secret really is to find the answer and that answer may come from a friend, a training partner or even your teacher.  There is always an answer to everything.  It is easier to find an answer to a problem when you know that there is an answer as opposed to when you have a problem and you think there is no answer because therefore it will never materialise.  In short I have always sought the answer and it has always come.

CF: What advice would you give to other BJJers that hit a plateau or maybe feel like they are losing motivation to keep training?

DO: I would always say don’t give up.  Talk to someone as I have suggested above and maybe all that is needed is a change in the way that you train.  It is easy to hit a plateau or to lose motivation if you never had a goal or a game plan in the first place.  Goals and game plans help you to structure yourself in order to move your journey forward.  If you don’t have one it’s easy to feel that you are floundering in the dark and in reality that’s probably what you are doing. 

Thanks for taking an interest in what I do and me and I wish all the readers every success in all they do -  “Intelligent Combat”.

Contact details for David Onuma

• E-mail: info@davidonuma.com
• Website:  www.davidonuma.com
• Blog: http://www.combinedfightingsystems.blogspot.com/

Carl Fisher (AKA The Fighting Photographer) is a BJJ/MMA journalist, photographer and referee; a purple belt with the Combat Base UK network, Carl’s work can be found on the internet and on his Blog: http://thefightingphotographer.blogspot.com

British BJJ Black Belt – Michael Russell

2nd August 2010
Interview by Seymour Yang photographs by Gussie

Introduction
At 26 years of age, Michael Russell is currently the youngest British BJJ black belt. Since beginning his training in 2004 he has shot from beginner to black belt in just under six years. Whilst he is often cited as one of the most talented young grapplers in the country, and is known for his innovative and inventive techniques, Michael’s journey has not gone without incident or drama. Michael took time out from his busy teaching schedule to talk to Seymour Yang and Gussie.

Interview:

KombatClinic.com: Hi Michael, thanks very much for your time, let’s open up with just a brief bit about you, your age, when and where you first began BJJ etc?

Michael Russell: Thanks for the opportunity to do the interview.  I’m 26, I started training BJJ in 2004.  I trained with Marc Walder in Dagenham Essex, I trained there for three and a half years where I went from white belt to purple belt.

When I started training it changed my life. From the day I walked in I absolutely loved it.  I think a lot of that was down to Marc, I really connected with him and I looked up to him a lot.  Maybe if I’d started BJJ and not bonded with the teacher as much or not liked the atmosphere of the club I may not have stuck with it, but because of him I really got the bug for jiu-jitsu and I just lost interest in a lot of other things at the time.

I was so hooked that I actually gave up my job because I didn’t want anything to interfere with my training.  I went from having a bit of money to having nothing.  A lot of the time I didn’t even have the money to pay for training.  I’d do short term little jobs just to get any little bit of money together, I’d pay Marc what I could, but he’d never ask for it.

BJJ started to take over my life – I was really, really obsessing about it.  When it was at its worst I’d be really upset if things didn’t go my way, like about not being able to pass the guard or whatever.  It wasn’t good, it definitely wasn’t healthy, the obsession I had, but I think that’s why I progressed so fast.  I’d go home after training and write everything down. I couldn’t sleep because I was always thinking about it, then when I woke up in the morning all I could think about was jiu-jitsu.

My dad was always on my case telling me to give it up.  He could see I was getting obsessed with it.  He couldn’t see how I could ever make a living out of it.  We had a lot of arguments about it.

KC: You recently got promoted to black belt…well done!!!! Are you now the youngest British born BJJ black belt?

MR: Apparently so! Obviously it’s not going to last forever, but at least I’ll be able to say that when I got promoted, at the time, I was the youngest.  There are some good young guys coming up.  Actually I feel like maybe I could have got there a bit quicker but my journey was disrupted because I changed schools a few times.  When I was 20 I wanted to be a black belt by the time I was 25, I didn’t quite make it.

KC: Tell me about your affiliation with Zaid Mirza BJJ Team. How come you hooked up with them over in Jordan?

MR: The link came through Graham Boylan. He is the founder of MMA Clinic and my business partner in the Romford gym.  He has a lot of business contacts in that part of the world and BJJ, grappling and MMA are really big out there.  Graham was going out there to talk business about MMA shows and things.  He made contact with Zaid who’s got a big jiu-jitsu school in Jordan and I ended up going to train with him.  It wasn’t a situation where I was just going to go over there and they’d give me the belt, they really put me through it for the entire week. They got me to sparring with their toughest guys – spar after spar after spar, really working me.  I didn’t really have a clue they’d give it to me, I thought I’d have to go back there two, three, four times, but at least I had a route to eventually grade to black belt.  They surprised me really; after I’d been training with them for a week they pulled me to one side and said, “we don’t think you should be a brown belt”. I guess they felt I was ready so they promoted me.

I’m in constant touch with them by e-mail and I’m going over there again next month. I’ll be training there before any big competitions; they’re my team now!

KC: You previously trained under Felipe de Souza, and I see you’re still pals with a lot of the guys there – why did you decide to pursue your own path away from BJJ School?

MR: When I left Marc’s I went to the Roger Gracie Academy and the guy who I really looked up to and with whom I really clicked with was Felipe.  When he left RGA I went with him.  It was a fantastic two years, great training, he improved me a lot, I went there as a good purple belt and when I left I felt my game had improved massively.  Marc was my first teacher and Marc gave me the base but Felipe’s such great coach, he taught me a lot, fine-tuned my game, corrected a lot of the mistakes I was making. He basically got me doing a lot of things that I hadn’t seen before, that I still use today.

I’m still friends with a lot of the guys there, I miss them a lot, I used to train there all the time.  I didn’t really want to leave; I just got to a stage where I had to take another route. The MMA Clinic thing came up and I had my own gym in Romford.  We parted for business reasons really; Felipe and I eventually both decided that it was better if we just went our own ways. From a business point of view I think it’s worked out a lot better for me.  I definitely miss his training, his influence on me, he’s the guy who I wish I could turn to sometimes to ask him technical questions or ask his advice.

KC: So things are all good with BJJ School and Felipe?

MR: Felipe and I, we don’t, you know, hang out together, but we see each other at tournaments, shake hands, talk.  We still respect each other.  Obviously I’m grateful for what he did for me.  It’s definitely something that’s deep that relationship with your teacher. When you’re really attached to your teacher and you respect them a lot that’s definitely the most difficult thing when you have to leave.  Both times when I have left clubs, it wasn’t so much due to the technical side of it, or the relationship with the other students, though that’s important, it was that respect you have for your teacher as a person that makes it so difficult. With Marc though, that was the tougher one, I went from idolising the guy one day, to the next not even talking to him. It was really hard.

KC: What are your tournament highlights, both domestically and at the big (IBJJF) events?

MR: Hard question to answer.  Winning the SENI at blue belt, that was a big thing for me, I won the Gi and the no Gi divisions. I had nine fights and nine wins all by submission. It was a big achievement and something I like to look back on.  The other one that really stands out for me was the 2007 Bristol Open at purple belt because all the best purple belts at my weight at that time were there; Walid Tadjouri, Cesar Lima, Andy Roberts, Tom Barlow and I ended up winning the division. That was a big achievement because I hadn’t had my purple belt for long and I had some really hard fights that day against tough guys, really good guys. So yeah, winning that tournament is one of the ones that I’m proudest about domestically.

Internationally I think I’ve done well, but not as well as I could have done, I won five fights in the Worlds one year, I won four another year.  I came second at the Europeans not long after I’d got my purple belt. I went there not expecting to do too much and ended up just losing on points in the final.

The domestic competitions are nice but you get to the point where you want something bigger.  I don’t feel like I’ve achieved anything like what I want to achieve, I’m not done yet.

KC: A lot of people still talk about your Kent Open fight with Roger Gracie Academy’s Andy Roberts. I think a lot of people, myself included, would love to see you continue your on-the-mat rivalry with him. I know he’s up for it, once he gets his black belt. Tell me about that match?

Michael Russell x Andy Roberts: Kent Open

MR: THAT match!  It was fun, a really fun match.  I suppose there was a bit of a rivalry simply because we were two of the top guys at that weight in the country. We fought at blue, we fought at purple and that was our match at brown.  I’m sure we’ll fight at black belt.  About that match: I finished it nicely I suppose but the way I look at it I made too many mistakes. When I swept him over my head at the beginning I stood up, he sweeps me back, and that was a mistake. I get mount, I should have finished the fight, which was a mistake. I get his back; I should have finished the fight, another mistake.  People talk about the things I pulled off in that fight but really I shouldn’t have had the opportunity, it should already have been over.

Andy’s a very, very tough competitor. I’ve not only fought him in competitions but I’ve trained with him at RGA. He’s very difficult to put away, his defence is very good, even if I can get the positions on him he’s very difficult to finish off because he never gives up.  It’s never going to be an easy fight with Andy.  He’s always going to be there and particularly after that Kent match his motivation is going to be high. If he wants to I’m happy to do it again! It’s fun – jiu-jitsu is fun!

Competitions are fun, it’s not always fun to lose but I read your most recent set of interviews with Andy and what he said; he said he also enjoyed that match as well and I know people like to watch it.  We haven’t fought no Gi yet so maybe we could do that?

KC: Okay, tell me about your academy – it was called the New State Academy – what happened?

MR: Well, New State Academy is no more, we’re MMA Clinic now. I started teaching in 2007 and really it’s a lot of the same team with the same guys from back then.  We had no name in the beginning, at first we were BJJ School Essex then we were New State Academy.  I was running my academy and also teaching at MMA Clinic in Islington. After talking to Graham, the owner of MMA Clinic, one day we decided to join forces. We turned the gym in Romford into an MMA Clinic, there was a lot of investment put into the gym, it doubled in size, we took over another floor of the building, put in showers, boxing ring, 15 punch bags, massive cage, shop, lots of facilities. MMA Clinic is a name to watch, there’s the gym in Islington there’s one in Cork City, there’s the Boxing Clinic in Covent Garden the guys behind it are very professional, very ambitious. 

KC: What are the pros and cons to running your own academy?

MR: I love teaching jiu-jitsu, but there are lots of aspects to running an academy that are no fun, a lot of administration, advertising, dealing with landlords and cleaning the gym.  When it was just my academy I’d be teaching classes till ten but I wasn’t getting out of there until after midnight some nights.  I was there seven days a week and it was killing me. 

With the current arrangement, I no longer have a hundred percent ownership of the gym any more but I’d rather have a share of a massive gym than a hundred percent of a small one and all the stress and aggro that goes with that.  Plus it’s a lot better for the students because we can offer them better value with the different types of training. My job is to teach jiu-jitsu, but MMA, Muay Thai and boxing are just as big now in the gym.  We’ve got better facilities and we’ve put in place a price structure that is a lot fairer for the students.  We’ve now got over a hundred students.  We’ve got some really good guys on the jiu-jitsu team now: three brown belts, six or seven purple belts.  There are some good fighters coming through and lots of teenagers coming up.

KC: What are your plans for the coming year competition wise? I hear something might be on the cards regarding a super fight with JT Torres?

MR: I’ve fought him before, a while ago, we’ve both developed a lot since then, but when we fought it was very, very close. I lost by only the smallest of margins. It’s definitely a rematch I want!  If someone wants to set it up then fine by me!

KC: I saw you compete at SENI this year. What happened in your match with Dimitri Assis? A lot of people expected you to breeze through but it was tough and there was immense forum chatter about the tactics of stalling or him playing negative BJJ or whatever…what are your thoughts on that match?

MR: I can’t complain, he won and I lost. I watched the fight back and I saw that I’d made some stupid mistakes.  I gave away some points and he played the game, once he was ahead he shut up shop.  That’s what I don’t like about competition jiu-jitsu, when I go into a match I’m there to sub my opponent I don’t care too much about the points, I know that’s probably not the right approach but that’s just the way I am.  Even if there’s thirty seconds of a match to go and I’m way ahead on points I’m still going to be trying to tap you out. I’m mounting to get the choke or to get the arm bar, I’m not mounting for the four points.  Once he had the points his whole focus was just to hold on to them and for me that’s not jiu-jitsu.  It’s hard to accept when you lose like that because it’s not the jiu-jitsu you want to do and it’s not the jiu-jitsu people want to watch, but that’s competition jiu-jitsu.  I don’t want to sound bitter, I’m over it now and as far as the forum stuff goes, it’s not me that’s writing it.

KC: Going back to your academy, what is your teaching philosophy? I mean are you trying to build a comp team or do you have wider goals concerning your school?

MR: I’m not really trying to build a competition team, I’m just trying to build good rounded jiu-jitsu guys and I want them to be comfortable everywhere. The approach is not always to get the top position and choke the guy, that’s not my game, we’re playing everywhere.  Even if you’re twenty stone you’re going to learn to work off your back, even if you’re nine stone you’re going to work on takedowns, you’re going to work on everything.  I’ve been training a lot of Judo because I felt that was part of my game that was lacking, I’d always go to my guard because I was comfortable there, but for my students I want them to train everything, I want them to be as complete as possible.

I know I should maybe push the students to compete a bit more.  If a competition’s coming up I’ll put something up on the wall of the academy but I’m not going to push people to do it, there’s no stress. I know from competing myself some people like to do it but it’s not for everyone. I’m sure there are some of my students who will do well in competitions and make a name for themselves but I’m not going to force people.  More than anything I want them to enjoy themselves – and they do! You can see it on their faces, they love it!  That’s very satisfying. I don’t want them coming to class fearing anything, I don’t go in for a military style warm up, a warm up is just that, 10 minutes and then we’re off.

KC: Is it true you coined the term ‘biff’. Can you explain what a biff is?

MR: [laughter] Actually that was Luc Lamude I think who came up with that, it wasn’t me but it was definitely our group from Marc Walder’s gym back in the day.  It came from Biff, the bully character in Back to the Future.  It’s when you get a guy who’s trying to use all his strength to cover up for a lack of technique, choking you across the chin, the sort of guy that slams and forces things on.  It just seems to sum it up ‘biff’.  When I went to America with Tom Barlow and Darren Yeoman they caught onto me saying it and later they text to say everyone in their gym was using it there.  I took it to BJJ School.  So no, I didn’t coin it, but I’ve certainly done my bit to spread it through the BJJ community.

KC: A lot of people say that you seem to almost ‘make-up’ techniques – where do you get your innovative style?

MR: I do make up techniques, my jiu-jitsu is probably a bit weird, most of the things I come up with I drill them in the gym find out which of them could work for me and which of them won’t.  The way I look at it is that if you find something that nobody else does it’s going to be a big advantage, everyone knows a scissor sweep or a cross choke, but if you do something that isn’t the norm then people aren’t going to be expecting it.  I’d rather have fun on the mat, if you don’t try things you’re not going to know if it works or not, you’re never going to enjoy your jiu-jitsu as much as you could if you don’t take a chance.  Even if it were in a competition I’d rather take a chance, even risk losing the match, rather than sit there for five minutes and hold the guy down.

KC: Who in the world of BJJ do you admire?

MR: I admire lots of people in BJJ for different reasons.  But in terms of style and favourite fighters I like Braulio a lot, he has that tall, kind of long body type similar to mine, I like the same kind of guard game and moves that he uses. Also I always liked Jacare and Niño Schembri.  In this country I really admire Kevin Chan.  He has a fantastic game, I’ve been lucky enough to spend time training with him and he is very, very good!  He stands out.  I admire him a lot.

KC: You zipped through your grades in a very short space of time, clearly you are one of those enviable guys who is super talented at BJJ. What would you say to those who might suggest you’ve been promoted too fast, I mean there are guys who slog away and train just as hard but maybe won’t see a black belt short of ten years?

MR: I did get my belts quite quick, but I felt ready for all of them at the time when I got them, maybe except the blue.  I got my blue belt after six months, I was a three stripe white belt and I really wasn’t expecting it.  That was the one belt I felt was a bit early. By the time I got my purple belt I was submitting all the other blue belts at competition very quickly but Marc really held me back.  I was definitely ready, he gave it to me at the right time, as soon as I got my purple I was going out winning purple belt divisions.  Same as the brown, when I left Marc’s I’d already won the SENI at purple; I went to Roger Gracie for six months.  I went to Felipe’s I won the SENI again at purple and trained with him for probably six months before I got my brown I felt at the time that I was ready.

I think also the reason that I progressed quickly wasn’t that I was super talented, it wasn’t that at all.  I had maybe natural athleticism and natural flexibility.  It came down to two things; firstly I lived jiu-jitsu, I absolutely lived and breathed it.  If you obsess about anything that much whether it’s healthy or not you’re going to get good at it.  Secondly I had fantastic teachers, great coaches.  I was very lucky that Marc was the perfect coach for me, for that foundation level jiu-jitsu he’s going to give you a grounding that you’re not going to get at most places.  Not only technically great but mentally the way he handled me when I was young, the way he brought me through the ranks.  I think also I was very fortunate to train with Felipe; they’re the two guys that built me really.

KC: How can a person, who turns up at your gym, who is not athletic, not very sporty, maybe wants to get fit etc how do you reach out to a guy like him?

MR: I’ve got loads of those guys!  Firstly they’ve got to enjoy the class and enjoy jiu-jitsu, that’s my job to make it enjoyable, to make sure the atmosphere is good so they want to come to class.  Another thing is I’m really careful how I pair people up, they’re not going to get beaten up, that might be the mentality at some places, it’s supposed to toughen their guys up, but that’s not our way.  They’ve got to want to come training, out of shape or not they’re part of the team and I try to help them to achieve their goals, whether to lose weight, get fit and compete or whatever.

KC: Michael thanks very much for your time…is there anything you would like to add, maybe a shout out to the people you want to mention (sponsors, supporters, team, etc)?

MR: Firstly, thanks to Marc Walder for everything he did for me, Felipe de Souza for being a fantastic coach. Jude Samuel for all his help as well. Adam Edwards, Tony Mckee, for being great training partners and friends since the start.  Kim Barti – thanks for all your help and advice.  Graham, Paul and the MMA Clinic guys and my students at both gyms. To Andy at Evolution Fightwear for his sponsorship. Thanks to my friend Simon (itchytriggafinga) for always believing in me and being my biggest fan. To Zaid and the guys at Team Mirza – thank you.  To my training partners past and present. Lastly to my Dad for everything.

Thanks.

Notes and further reading:

Michael Russell teaches grappling and BJJ at the MMAClinic in London at two locations: Angel Islington and Romford Essex. Classes are available six days a week.

Seymour Yang is a BJJ journalist, writer, photographer and blogger. He is a purple belt under Nick Brooks at the Mill Hill Roger Gracie Academy. He was assisted in this interview by Gussie.

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Mestre Carlos Machado, 8th Degree black belt

Interview by, David Webb 12th July 2010
Images by kind permission of Lindsay Machado

Interview:

KombatClinic.com: Mestre Machado, it is a great honour to have you on KombatClinic.com many thanks for agreeing to give us your time for this interview; it is not often our pages are graced with such a legend of BJJ. I know you are very busy with teaching and overseeing one of the largest Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Association in North America. Can we start with a little background to how you got involved with training Jiu Jitsu? With your family background would it be a fair assumption that Jiu Jitsu was always going to be your vocation in life?

Carlos Machado:  It is hard to know if what you are going to do in life is up to you, or a sum of the contribution of others, plus the circumstances you are born into.  In that regard, following the Jiu-Jitsu lifestyle was a natural consequence of being part of a family who was already on course to change the history of martial arts.  The person who made the first effort to get us started, though, was our mother.  She would take us to the academy, sometimes in long trips, to ensure that her children would reap the benefits of such a tremendous activity.  Since four years of age, we have been playing, practicing, and sweating on the mat.  Even if it was not originally a vocation, it became one as we grew into it.  You do not choose what your mission is; it will come to you when you are ready!  So much so, that even after going to law school, following the footsteps of my father (an accomplished lawyer and judge at the time), I realized that the suit would never replace the kimono!

KC: The world over, the name ‘Gracie’ is synonymous with the development of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and ground fighting per se especially over the last 10-15 years with the explosion in popularity of mixed martial arts. More recreational martial artists and or viewers of events such as the UFC are maybe not aware of how synonymous the ‘Machado’ name is with the Gracie family. As an 8th degree black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu you have shared the tatami with many of today’s other Jiu Jitsu legends including your four brothers and the likes of Rickson, Renzo and Rillion. As well as this you have had the privilege to be taught by masters such as Carlson, Rolls and Crolin Gracie what was training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu like back in those days? I have heard stories that people would train all day everyday.

CM:  When you are part of a family like that, Jiu-Jitsu is synonymous with life.  We practice when we go to our academies, we also practice when we go to each other’s place, and if that is not enough, we still have mats at home for our evening after meals.  It was not training all the time, but whenever we felt the time was right.  The older cousins would spend quite some time sharpening their skills, and later on pass onto us what new moves they came up with.  Crolin would do Jiu-Jitsu even if we were on the beach, if he suddenly had to work out a new technique.  Rillion was kind of my shadow in a way.  We were of the same age, and learned at the same time.  He was an incredible training partner, and a very tough one (one of the best jiu-jitsu guards I have ever seen to this day!)

KC: I am sure many readers would have heard many of the old tales of Jiu Jitsu’s battles with some of the Lute Livre schools in Brazil and in particular events that developed into rivalries such as that of Rickson Gracie and Hugo Duarte. Being surrounded by guys such as Rickson and Renzo and with you being a founder member of the Gracie Barra School under Carlos Gracie Jr. were you ever involved in any such rivalries?  

CM:  There were rivalries at certain times, and we have witnessed first hand some of them.  When Rickson first fought Hugo Duarte on Pepe Beach, we were part of the group who made a circle around him to make sure nobody else would interfere with the match.  It was wild.  We were there when they had the first encounter in a Vale Tudo show between Jiu-Jitsu and Luta Livre.  Jiu-Jitsu had the upper hand, but the rivalry was still far from gone.  As my brothers and I made our move to America in 1990, other events unfolded, including a second vale Tudo show putting Jiu-Jitsu against Luta Livre once more.  At that time Jiu-Jitsu totally dominated the show.  Then came the UFC, and everyone started to care more about their careers instead of personal grudges.  Today, several Luta Livre fighters cross train in Jiu-Jitsu, and everyone helps each other out. 

KC: I understand you first moved to the West coast of America in the late 1980’s, early 1990’s where I believe you settled in Los Angles, California, following your brothers Rigan and John to the US. Was your decision to leave for America a direct result of the popularity of the work being done by Rorian and his ‘garage’ sessions? And were your aspirations set on spreading ‘Brazilian Jiu Jitsu’ or could you already foresee an opportunity to open some ‘Machado’ Jiu Jitsu schools and affiliates?

CM:  I had no clue what was awaiting me before coming to the U.S.  All I knew was that my brother Rigan was in need of some help with his schedule, right at the time the first Gracie Academy was about to be opened.  Our original plan was to follow suit and work along the lines established by our cousins.  From the beginning, though, we realized there was not enough room to grow with everyone under the same roof.  Our decision to part our own ways, though, was not something we chose to do, but was chosen for us.  From that point on, it was another experience to have the opportunity to build ourselves up along the philosophy our late uncle Carlos Gracie always preached about.  Which was of Respect and Humility!  A few years down the road, in 1995, I made the decision to go to Texas, so I could provide training for Chuck Norris, and stretch the reach of our work throughout the Country.

KC: What was the initial uptake of Jiu Jitsu when you arrived like? Was it hard to get people in to train with you and or to keep them once they had tried Jiu Jitsu?

CM:  It was not difficult at all.  Our first students were very excited, and willing to learn the new and intriguing game of BJJ.  There were also some students who initially had a bad attitude, and wanted more of a confrontation than anything.  Out of those, some we were able to convert into Jiu-Jitsu, while others followed their own ways.

KC: Reading some of the history of when Rorian (Gracie) arrived in the US and from anecdotes from guys such as Richard Bressler it seems that two [main] methods of student recruitment were used to get people to try Jiu Jitsu initially: 1. Forming a challenge or 2. Offering cynical flattery to the less functional and practical arts. Have you any stories you would like to share of early experiences in America where you may have had to use extreme measures to get people into your academy initially?

CM:  Our philosophy was never to confront or conflict with any other martial arts as our strategy to attract new students.  Since we respect every other martial art, it was never an option for us to go anywhere to belittle someone.  Nobody has the right to humiliate someone else, period.  What we did, instead, was to show the benefits of adding Jiu-Jitsu to their game, regardless of their background.  Not only they came in leaps and bounds, but became great advocates of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.  It was a win win situation!  We started in 1991 our Motto, “Leave your ego at the door”, which we still use it up to this day!

KC: Over the years I am sure you have produced many black belts, some of whom are more famous that others. Movie star Chuck Norris is one example as are Jiu Jitsu champions Travis Lutter and Rafael Lovato Jr. I understand that it was through Chuck that you moved to Dallas, Texas and took the opportunity to teach Jiu Jitsu in the same building as the set of ‘Walker Texas Ranger’.

Over the years Jiu Jitsu has had much affection with celebrities and the movies, there are many examples: Rorian’s work with Mel Gibson on the ‘Lethal Weapon’ films, your work alongside your brothers as fight choreographers for ‘Walker Texas Ranger’, Guy Ritchie and his brown belt under Renzo Gracie, the list could go on. Do you think that working with Chuck and the inroads created from this type of work contributed to the birth and subsequent growth of Machado Jiu Jitsu in North America and how do you think things would have developed if you would have stayed on the West coast?

CM:  Chuck Norris has been one of the greatest advocates of the Machado’s, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu at large.  He was the first celebrity ever to experience it hands on, and the first to embrace it after it came to the U.S.  His influence on my moving to Texas was critical, and his friendship to our family is highly cherished.  Whether things would be the same or not if I stayed in the West Coast, it is hard to predict.  All I know is that we have a mission that requires from us certain sacrifices at times, and it would be terribly selfish for me to hang around one place, knowing that there are still so many lives untouched by Jiu-Jitsu somewhere else.  It was a right decision when I came to Texas.  Even if I did not do it then, I would eventually end up going somewhere else.

The Gracie’s and Machado’s surround Helio (centre right) and Carlos Sr. (centre left) after a session at Helio’s Rio ranch

KC: On that initial flight from Rio de Janeiro to the US could you ever have imagined ‘Mestre Carlos Machado’ becoming the ‘father’ of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Texas? With one of the fastest growing affiliate school programs in the country, which now includes representatives in Texas, Michigan, Oklahoma, Florida, Philadelphia, North Carolina, New York, Rhode Island, Mississippi, South Carolina, Georgia and schools outside of the US in places such as England, France, Australia, Canada and Mexico?

CM:  No clue what the journey was.  Once I was in the midst of it, not knowing then what was exactly my direction, I still was able to influence quite a few people.  The difference is that now I know where I am heading, and there is no telling how far I’m going to reach.  I am not shy about my goals, but have conviction about my principles.  I want to grow as much as I can, without losing my integrity in the process!

KC: You must feel very proud of your accomplishments right? And too of your brothers Roger in Pasadena, CA; Rigan in Torrance, CA; Jean Jacques in Tarzana, CA; and John in Los Angeles, CA.?

CM: You know the funny thing is that I have spent absolutely 0% advertising or time trying to grow my Association. People are seeking me out for guidance. I get calls and emails daily regarding my association. I am blessed to be able to help over 50 academies currently attain the BJJ structure they need in their academies. Imagine the magnitude that things will be once I do start actually trying to grow my organization. The prospects are exciting for sure. I am in the process of opening up 2 more academies this year as well. My goal is to replicate prosperity with integrity. Being able to take a student from White to Black Belt is a huge accomplishment but to take that Black Belt and give him/her the ability, through proper training and support that we provide, to make a very successful career out of teaching the martial arts is the most rewarding.

In regards to my brothers and their succes, I am absolutely proud to be their brother. I learn as much from them as I am sure they do from me. Each brother in their own right has made their own success in different ways. Competition and Championship wins aside they have all continued to raise the bar in BJJ. Jean Jacques for instance was the first person to create a state of the art online training program that took BJJ training global. His patented T.A.P. program gave people the ability to take training from an academy straight to their home via Internet.

My brother Rigan. What can I say? He is the most talented of the brothers in my opinion. He is an unbelievable BJJ/MMA coach. All the top MMA Champions and fighters over the last decade have sought out Rigan for training. I think Rigan is extremely under recognized for his role in taking each fighters game to the supreme level. Not to mention he has the most books published and instructional DVD’s of any other BJJ practitioner out there. John is the baby of the family and an incredible instructor and father. He has really tried to take BJJ to the “Big Screen” and like all of us, use his connections and abilities to spread the word of BJJ to the masses. His latest accomplishments are his comic book Faixa Preta and the movie Red Belt.

Roger is the least spoken about of the Machado brothers, one word describes my brother Roger: ‘zen’, he has taken BJJ and actually moulded it to his personality. His YogaJitsuTM, program has made a huge impact on a completely different market of people that would not have even contemplated training BJJ which is the ‘older student’ so to speak. Very innovative and yet one more way we have been able to reach out to a different market that is unfortunately over looked. So between the 5 of us I can definitely say that we are fulfilling our mission which is to change as many people lives as possible through the amazing art of BJJ.

Carlos hanging out with his cousins after training.

KC: California and indeed San Diego has become a Mecca for Jiu Jitsu Champions seeking to open schools in the US and over the last 1-2 years there has been a huge influx of athletes representing all teams and affiliations; the Ribeiro brothers and their Jiu Jitsu University, Andre Galvao and Ramon Lemos’ team Atos, Royler Gracie and his new competition team, indeed Gracie Barra have chosen Irvine California as their headquarters for all Gracie Barra activity. With this popularity what is the scene like in Texas right now? We recently did an interview with Vinicius ‘Draculino’ Magalhaes, who I understand has a very popular school in Texas as well.

CM: Well I am excited that the enthusiasm to teach is growing exponentially in the US and specifically Texas. However there is a big misconception in regards to opening an academy. It is not easy and it is not just about putting down a mat and teaching BJJ. There are so many other things that go on behind the scenes that are crucial to keeping your doors open that many BJJ guys do not realize. Academies are closing as fast as they open here in Texas and I am sure everywhere else as well. They open their academy with the mindset of ‘if I teach they will come’ – HUGE mistake. When those students don’t show up like they anticipated the first thing that happens is they usually drop the price of the tuition. HUGE mistake. By dropping the price you are also dropping the value that non-martial artists associate with BJJ. People do not value what they don’t pay for. In the end it is a race to the bottom and no one wins. I am in a constant struggle to keep the standards and value of BJJ high in Dallas. It is not an easy thing to do especially if you have other BJJ academies opening up and charging less and less for the BJJ. I do not want BJJ to turn into what TKD turned into in the 80’s. So my goal is to educate potential academy owners of mine on how to not only teach world class BJJ but also how to run their business successfully. Like I said, replicate prosperity with integrity. 

KC: Without categorising too much there is often talk of a distinct difference between “Gracie Jiu Jitsu” and “Brazilian Jiu Jitsu”. With Rorian Gracie carry the mantle of “Gracie Jiu Jitsu” there is a definite move towards the preservation of the self-defence and moral aspects of the art as taught by his father Helio and Uncle Carlos, whilst “Brazilian Jiu Jitsu” continues to develop its sporting desires.

According to many resources on the Internet you are ‘one of two (the other being Rickson Gracie) leading world authorities in ground Survival and have a unique ability to transfer superior skill into Tactical Military & Law Enforcement Operations.’ As you are involved in such defence tactics and work very closely with many of the US law enforcement agencies where would you say ‘Machado Jiu Jitsu’ sits on that spectrum between “Gracie Jiu Jitsu” and “Brazilian Jiu Jitsu” based on what I have said above?

CM:  If my name was Silva, Ricardo, Roberto, whatever, I could care less what people thought of me, what I care the most is what I can do for people.  I am not into it for recognition; if it comes it will happen out of my own effort.  The Machado’s make no distinction on the Jiu-Jitsu, just on the philosophy.  I do not have answers to all the problems, but for sure will work to find solutions to as many as I can.  That is why we were able to serve some of our law enforcement and military friends, we did not start by thinking we had all the answers.  As we partnered with them, they gave us the feedback in which we built upon with our own experience.  It was a joint effort that made everyone stronger in the end.  

KC: Finally, 2010 saw resurgence in competition from a new generation of the Gracie family; I suppose we could say the third and fourth generations. Carlinhos son’s Kayron, Gregor Rangel/Gracie, Flavia’s daughter Kyra, Relson’s son Rhalan, Rickson’s son Kron and of course the leader of the pack and current world and 3-times absolute Mundials champion – Roger Gracie (son of Mauricio Gomes and Reyla Gracie). With such a strong tradition in Jiu Jitsu between you and your brothers should we expect a new generation of Machado family athletes to do the same in the near future?

CM:  We are very proud of all our relatives who are shining out there today.  It is not so easy at this point, with so many more accomplished competitors out there all-fighting for the same titles.  A Gracie today has to fight much harder to keep up with the challenge ahead of them.  And from what I see, the ones you mentioned, and many others, are doing their part to ensure the legacy lives on.  You have to remember though, that for now, we are only five brothers, and yet, we were able to a great degree, to contribute to what is taking place today.  For sure some of the little Machado’s that are now coming, when they grow old enough, might choose this path.  If that is the case, I will be there for them.  If not, I will be there for them in any case (Pictured Carlos’ middle son, Colton).

KC: Mestre Machado, thank you so much for taking time to answer my questions today. Have you anything you would like to add to finish the article or any people you would particularly like to thank?

CM:  Do your diligence in spreading the good message, that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is an art, that we are here to change people’s lives, and that this journey never ends!!!

All my Gracie cousins, uncles, and clans who opened the way for us, all the students who commit, are patient, and follow our advice, our families, wives, children, and relatives, who give us the motivation to get up and go, and the encouragement at the end of the day.  To close, big thanks to God, he watches all over us, and for sure has a nice mat out there in heaven for when we go from here to there!

Thank you!

KC: All the best Mestre Machado!

I first read about a guy called Rick Young when I was a fresh faced Karateka in the now legendary ‘Terry O’Neill Fighting Arts International Magazine’ (I still have that copy from the early 90′s) and by all accounts Rick was a guy that had “been there and bought the t-shirt” and was literally light years ahead of the game when it came to cross-training. You only have to glance at Rick’s ‘curriculum vitae’ to understand the ability that the guy has as a world respected martial artists:

- 2nd degree black belt in Wado Ryu Karate
- Black belt Judoka
- Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt under Professor Mauricio Gomes
- Full instructor Jun Fan Gung Fu (Jeet Kune Do) under Sifu Dan Inosanto
- Full instructor Filipino martial arts under Sifu Dan Inosanto
- Level IV instructor Majapahit martial arts under Sifu Dan Inosanto
- Senior instructor Jun Fan Gung Fu (Jeet Kune Do) under Sifu Larry Hartsell
- Full instructor Progressive Fighting Systems under Sifu Paul Vunak
- Full instructor JKD/Kali/Muay Thai/Wing Chun under Sifu Rick Faye
- Associate instructor Combat Submission Wrestling under Sensei Erik Paulson
- British, European, 3 x Pan-Am & 3 x Masters & Seniors World Jiu Jitsu champion
- Instructor credentials in Muay Thai
- Senior instructor within the British Combat Association

Not only does Rick’s résumé speak volumes for his ability as a martial artist but when guys such as Geoff Thompson, Neil Adams and practically anyone that has ever come into contact with Rick recommend his ability, you take note! KombatClinic.com caught up with Rick recently where we discussed his background in the martial arts, people that he has trained under and his thoughts on current aspects of Judo and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Enjoy!

Interview by, David Webb. Friday 16th July 2010

Interview:
—
KombatClinic.com: Hi Rick, many thanks for agreeing to give us your time for this interview, as I know you are very busy with seminars and teaching commitments at your own academy in Edinburgh. How is your academy in Edinburgh developing? As an academy devoted to developing many ranges of combat how much of your timetable is devoted to training grappling and in particular, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?

Rick Young: First of all thank you for taking the time to interview me. The academy is going really well. We have over 200 adult members and a small but enthusiastic children’s program. The BJJ has become a major part of what is taught in the academy. We have six BJJ classes a week and 3 MMA classes which all cover no Gi submission wrestling. The BJJ classes have anywhere between 10 to over 40 in a class. We also have classes in the Filipino martial arts, Muay Thai and Jeet Kune Do.

KC: I think the majority of our UK readership and most of those from overseas will have heard of Rick Young, whether that is through your training under Guru Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell, Rick Faye and the many other fantastic martial artists that you have studied under or because of your successes in the world of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I remember reading about a guy named Rick Young back in the early 1990’s in an issue of the brilliant “Terry O’Neill’s Fighting Arts International”, which now unfortunately is no longer in print.

I believe you began you martial arts under a guy named Shaun Stanley. Are you still in contact with your first mentor and would you say that what he instilled in you during your early days has had much of an impact of you becoming you and developing the commitment, drive and passion that you so obviously have for training?

RY: Shaun unfortunately sustained an injury in 1989 because of which he is unable to train now. The training and advice he gave me from 1975 till then is still the bedrock upon which a lot of my training is based upon – even to the present day. I have trained with a lot of incredible martial artists but very few have impressed me as much as Shaun. He really was on an uncommon level both physically and mentally. At the time he began teaching me he was already aware of what it took to be an all round fighter. He boxed, did Karate and was a very good Judoka, having started when he was five years old. He was taught by George Kerr, now a tenth Dan, Maurice Allan, who won the world Sambo championship in 1975 even though it was only his 2nd Sambo competition, and Jimmy Delaney who specialised in throwing. All of these men in their day were absolute beasts on the mat and a lot of what they taught filtered through to me via Shaun. He really stressed being good on the ground not only in straight grappling but also being able to strike while on the ground. He also stressed Judo type throwing for the street, as it was devastatingly effective especially when you throw an untrained opponent on concrete.  I watched Shaun win two fights by knocking out the guys with just the throw alone, by the way I am not condoning that but just pointing out how effective Judo throws can be and that Shaun utilised them very well.

Because of my training with him when the UFC started I couldn’t understand why people were shocked as this was how I had been trained to think and fight from the beginning. The physical side of what we were doing was technically behind what is available now but the concept and practicality of being a complete fighter was the base from which I grew. I feel honoured to have been his student.

KC: As well as being a black belt in Jiu Jitsu under Maurição “Motta” Gomes you are also a Dan grade in Judo having spent a great deal of time training at Edinburgh Judo club. The Judo club in Edinburgh has some very notable names as either current or previous squad members: Olympians James Millar, Sarah Clark and Euan Burton to name stars form the current crop and the legend that is George Kerr, 10th Dan. Do you still get time to train at the Judo club in Edinburgh or are your commitments well and truly rested at Rick Young’s Black Belt Academy when you are home from seminars and travelling?

RY: It is funny you should ask that as just today I bumped in to Sensei Kerr and had a nice talk with him. He is going to visit my academy and give a talk about Judo, training and various aspects of his life soon. He is as you mentioned a legend and I admire him very much. The Edinburgh club actually closed in 2004 but brought their children’s program to my academy until we moved to new premises. The adult Judo is now mainly done in a full time facility at Ratho, just outside of Edinburgh.

I loved training in the Edinburgh club and have many fond memories of my time there. The training was always intense and competitive but also relaxed. When I began in 1990 Billy Cusack and Marc Preston were the two top players and both of them were my teachers. Both Marc and Billy have world class Ne-Waza. For 4 years I took private lessons from Marc mainly on Ne-Waza for 2-4 times a week. I actually worked the door so I could pay for the lessons. After about 2 years of regular classes and privates I started training with the squad. The standout at that time being Graeme Randall who went on to win the world championships. It was a fantastic time, I learned an awful lot about groundwork, throwing and gripping from these men.  I did a lot of Ne waza practices with Graeme, Billy and a lot of other members of the squad. I also got access to train and roll with top quality players like Yasuhiro Yamashita, Nobuyuki Sato, Hidetoshi Nakamura, Peter Seisenbacher, Kenzo and Yukimasai Nakamura, Udo Qualmaz, Steven Gawthorpe, Neil Adams and many others. Of course I was not in the same planet as these players in terms of ability, but through osmosis – and taking some beatings- I learned how it feels for a world-class athlete to work and operate.

KC: With the ever-growing popularity of mixed martial arts (MMA) across the globe with events such as the UFC and the general uptake of ‘MMAers’ growing by the day many individuals, whether through slight ignorance or choice are training in no-Gi grappling – quite extensively, whilst ignoring the benefits of extra understanding of leverage, control points and the intelligence offered through training in the Gi. We have heard numerous times from world-class instructors, coaches and competitors the benefits of training with the kimono vs. no-Gi for overall understanding and development per se (most recently Jean-Jacques Machado on the fightworks podcast, episode #213).

With your background in Judo and, I suspect, other forms of ‘jacket wrestling’ and taking into consideration your work with Erik Paulson’s ‘Combat Submission Wrestling’ system and Larry Hartsell grappling programme what is your take on the whole Gi versus no-Gi debate? Is this a notion that has ever figured with you?

RY: The Gi gives you more options for submissions and opportunity to expand the game and experiment. You can also slow the match down a lot easier than you can in no Gi. Personally I feel just as comfortable without the Gi as with it. Though I do think it is easier for a Gi player to transfer to no Gi than the reverse. For that reason I teach 70% Gi grappling at my academy. With that said if someone really does not want to train in the Gi and only train submission wrestling on its own I don’t have a problem with it, but I do explain that in my opinion training with the Gi will make your understanding of the game more complete. I think the way you train is primarily influenced by the reason you want to train, and if the Gi does not appeal to you then fine, but as I mentioned I think anyone who does train that way will have a more shallow view of grappling than someone who trains both.

KC: Grappling with the likes of those mentioned above and going on to become a Full instructor under both Erik Paulson (Combat Submission Wrestling) and a senior instructor under the late Larry Hartsell. Was there a general appreciation for all things grappling orientated before Jiu Jitsu or was it a case of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and its concepts of mechanics and leverage opening your eyes to newer practices and fundamental frameworks of learning?

RY: Sifu Hartsell really encouraged me to look further in to grappling long before it was as popular as it is today. I first took a seminar from him in 1984 and at least half the class was focussed on groundwork. He always stressed to work the ground game and also to work the transitions from the top to bottom. I really owe Sifu Hartsell a great debt and I miss him a great deal. I met Erik in 1989 and even at that time he was taking private lessons from Rickson and training in Shooto with Yuri Nakamura, an A class shooter. I remember going down to a park in Manhattan Beach in L.A with Erik and putting down some mats and exchanging positions from Judo, shoot wrestling and BJJ.  Also Guro Dan Inosanto had looked in to BJJ as far back as 1987 but didn’t start formally training in it with the Machado brothers until 1995. Guro Inosanto has always grappled and has always stressed how hard it is to deal with a good groundwork player. 

Because of my training with Shaun, grappling was always involved in the equation and was seen as a necessary component to complement becoming an all round fighter. Because of my previous training in Judo and my training with Shaun, Sifu Larry and Guro Dan the BJJ made total sense to me. The leverage and mechanics were not drastically different from what I had already learnt because at its highest level Judo is as technical as any art I have practiced. I feel Judo when taught by a world-class player and coach is just as technical as BJJ but where Judo has an immense amount of depth in the techniques being taught it lacks the breadth compared to BJJ on the ground. In the end Judo and BJJ are cousins and the practice of both of them can only enhance your game.

Rick Young pictured with his Jiu Jitsu instructor Maurição “Motta” Gomes.

KC: Through talking to a number of high profile UK martial artists/combat athletes about inspirational figures, your name is often raised as someone they recommend to be sought out for instruction. Revolutionary figures such as Geoff Thompson have constantly sung your praises and your ability as a coach and training partner. Firstly, is this something that registers with you, that guys such as Geoff speak so highly about you and second, who would you say has inspired you throughout your career as a martial artist much in the same way inspirational people [in their own right] are inspired by you?

RY: Thank you for the compliment. It is really nice to receive compliments but in all honesty I feel like a beginner most of the time when I train so it is hard to take compliments like that in. Because I try to seek out the best martial artists I can find in the art I am training in I feel like a beginner when I am in their area and being taught by them. As an example the last time I rolled with Braulio Estima I felt like a white belt. He is just on a completely different level, I couldn’t get anywhere near him unless he let me.

I remember training at Tokai University in Japan when at the end of a thirty-minute line up a Japanese guy proceeded to bounce me like something out of a roadrunner cartoon. After the first throw I looked up at the clock and it was at 4-42 having counted down from 5-00 so I was thrown in 8 seconds and the throwing did not let up until the buzzer went off. I later realised I had just practiced with Olympic champion Kenzo Nakamura and again I felt like a baby. My whole martial arts life has been like that where I feel like a beginner when I am practicing. Of course I realise I have some skills but when you know how good the top guys are in any art, and you know how far you have to climb to get there it is hard to get carried away with yourself.

I have to say that Guro Dan Inosanto has always and continues to inspire me so much and in so many ways. He has a martial art knowledge that no one I know of can touch. His work ethic, his thought process and his ability to cross reference styles, training methods and techniques is really just on another level. He is also a beautiful, compassionate and thoughtful human being who is one of, if not the, greatest embodiment of what martial art training can produce that I have ever been privileged to witness. Mestre Maurição Gomes is a major inspiration in my life. His Jiu-Jitsu is obviously world class and I am privileged to be his student, but also the way he carries himself both on and off the mat inspires me greatly.

KC: Has this inspiration changed at all as you have become more involved with the grappling fraternity and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in particular?

RY: I could write all day about the people who have inspired me in martial arts but I have to say that my mother was as big an inspiration as any martial artists I know. She basically single-handedly brought up 6 children on her own while holding down 2 jobs. When she was diagnosed with cancer and was told she had a brain tumour the first thing she wanted to do was to change her diet to give herself more energy to fight the cancer. The second thing she wanted to do was start weight training and practice Tai Chi. This is a 68-year-old mother of 6. She was a real fighter and lived a life of selfless devotion to her family, I really can’t hope for more inspirational figures than her.

KC: Continuing on the theme of BJJ you are a multiple time Masters & Seniors champion, Pan-Am champion, as well as being European and British champion. Many people that train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu do not compete for one reason or another but do you feel that competition is an essential part of a Jiu Jitsoka’s development and something all BJJers should partake in?

RY:  I wish I had competed a lot more when I was younger. I feel competition gives you a different perspective on the art and can brutally expose any weaknesses you may have. As a teacher you can use the experience you have and empathise and advise your students about the preparation and participation aspects of any tournaments they may enter. With that said I do not think competition is for everyone and strongly feel that no one should feel pressured to compete.

Competition is not just about being there on the day that you have to fight. It is about the mental and physical preparation that you have to do to get in shape and work on your game. The preparation, the 8-week lead in to a competition is where the real battle is won or lost. Most of the time the battle is not external but internal as you have to go through so many sessions, change your diet, your lifestyle and basically become very self centred for the lead in to the tournament. It is the mental fight with yourself that you must win before you even step on the mat to compete.

I have heard some people say the bracket I enter in the senior division is not that important so winning or taking a medal in it is not that big a deal, and I guess if you compare it to the Mundials where the real top tier players compete they are right. But with that said when I compete I see every match as my Olympic final as I am there and I want to give 100% of what I have to win. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose but always give a hundred per cent and then you can come of the mat knowing you gave it everything you had. I tell my students the same thing. Whether you fight in the white, blue, purple, brown or Black belt division, take it seriously and try to give everything you have so when you walk of the mat you know you have applied yourself completely. Winning or losing is just a part of the process and you have to accept each with equal measure.

KC: Being such an avid competitor and with the Mundials just past, did another year of dominance by Roger Gracie and “Jiu Jitsu 101” surprise you. If not, how do see anyone beating him over the next few years?

RY: I have known Roger since he was a seventeen-year-old blue belt. He has never changed. Incredibly talented, humble and self-effacing he is one of the best examples of a martial artist both inside and outside of BJJ that I know of. I felt privileged watching Roger at the last world championships, it is incredible to watch him handle world-class grapplers the way he does. I think there are always going to be young guys coming up through the ranks chasing him but if he goes in to each championship in shape and focussed I don’t see anyone beating him anytime soon.

KC: A while ago now the Fightworks podcast had an interview with one Richard Bressler (the Fightworks podcast, episode #195) who, as a BJJ black belt, was one of Rorian Gracie’s original students from back in the day when Rorian used to teach from his garage. Having received your black belt in 2005 not many people realise that you too were among the first group to be exposed to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in the states back in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s, way before it landed here in the UK.

Would you care to share some of those experiences at what training must have been like with the Gracie and Machado brothers and who, if any current/practicing Jiu Jitsoka’s were also present, training alongside you?

RY: I was first introduced to BJJ in Los Angeles in July of 1989. Someone I knew was taking privates from Royce and he took me along for the lesson. It was at a house were the brothers stayed as they did not have the academy then and Royce showed some basic positions and escapes. To be honest it was good but I had been exposed to some fantastic, Ne-Waza so I didn’t think it was anything out of the ordinary. Later I was introduced to Rickson, who immediately stood out in the way he carried himself and his presence on the mat was inspiring. It is funny but the first time I rolled with Rickson I had a broken scapula due to a car crash I had been involved in while in L.A. I just wanted to watch the lesson, which was a private for Paul Vunak, and had no intention of rolling with him but he looked at me and said, “Do you want to go?” Before I knew it we were rolling around and I was being manhandled like never before. I came away from the roll a believer.

I am not capable or of a high enough level to assess how good Rickson is but I did watch him literally tap Royce at will and then demolish Fabio Gurgel. Even now he is very cordial and polite when we meet. At the Pan Ams a couple of years ago I had just arm locked my opponent and come off the mat where Victor Estima and Erik Paulson both congratulated me, and as I walked back to the warm up area I saw someone come down the steps toward me shouting something. It was Rickson and he shook my hand and said “Great job Rick”, It really meant so much to me that he would take the time to do that especially as I am not his student.

I also remember him asking me if I wanted to go to a tournament that his brother was organising and that was going to show GJJ to the world. I had already been to the states twice that year (1993) and was up to my eyes in debt so I told him I couldn’t go. It was of course the first UFC he was referring to! Looking back it was an interesting time because I was not aware of what I was getting in to or who was who in the family. Even at that stage Rorian seemed to have a handle on how big it was going to get and he definitely had a vision of how he wanted GJJ to be perceived.

I trained at Rickson’s whenever I travelled to L.A. up till 1996 when I was introduced to the Machado brothers. I always enjoyed training at Rickson’s but by that time he was rarely there when I called in. The Machado brothers have always been very polite and open to me. Their Jiu-jitsu is obviously top notch and they are very open with the material they have. I have rolled with John who is technically excellent and probably the most underrated of the brothers, Jean Jacque who is very smooth in his movement and Rigan who even when he was a lot lighter than he is now had incredible base and weight distribution. When I first gripped up with Rigan I could not believe how powerful and direct his grips were.

As for who else was training at that time, as I said Erik Paulson was already way ahead of the game in terms of investigating BJJ. But back then the Gracie name was just getting out there and a lot of people confused the brothers because there were so many of them. I interacted with a lot of people but because everything was very down to earth and ordinary no one stood out. As an example I remember Erik introducing me to a wrestler who was giving him a private lesson and asked me if I wanted to roll with him. We started the roll on our knees and when we shook hands he took my back faster than anyone else has before or since. We had a good 20-minute roll until Erik called time. It was about three years later I realised I had rolled with Ricco Chipparelli. I also remember Randy Couture training down at the Inosanto academy but at that time he had not fought MMA and was one of the many top-level guys who would visit the academy.

(pictured left to right): Jose Henrique “Ze Beleza” Teixeira, Rick Young, Maurição “Motta” Gomes, and Sergio Malibu shot at Ze Texiera’s school in Rio.

KC: Apart from you regular trips to and from the US, yourself and a number of other UK based guys and girls make a sometimes twice a year pilgrimage to Brazil to train at the source of BJJ. In which academy are we likely to see Rick Young training in Brazil and has this changed since the first time you made the trip?

RY: When I first went to Rio in the beginning of 2002 I trained mostly at Marcelo Yogui’s school in Ipanema as well as at Barra Tijuca. Marcelo is a great teacher and though his school was very small it was a great place to train with some great partners. That first trip I practiced or I should say was tapped, by Cafe Dantas a lot, and took a lot of private lessons with Marcelo, which were all focused on the basics and were excellent. On that trip and each subsequent trip I trained at Marcelo’s school and also at Rillion Gracie’s academy, which was, then in Leblon. He is a great instructor and very welcoming, I really enjoyed training under him. Of course I also trained at the main Gracie Barra School but that was mostly in the mornings as it takes so long to get to Barra from Ipanema at night. Nowadays I usually train with Ze Teixeira at his academy in Gavea. He is also a great instructor and has a great atmosphere at his school. Of course my own instructor Mestre Gomes was always there for me and set up sessions and privates for me both with other instructors and with himself. If it wasn’t for Mauricio I would never have had the opportunity to train with so many people in Brazil.  I have gone to Rio about 12 times now and I can’t wait to go back.

KC: With such a busy academy timetable to keep to and I’d imagine a hectic seminar and competition schedule through the year, is it the case that you just train as intelligently as you can all year round or do have a special strength and conditioning routine that you adhere to?

RY: I am 48 now so staying in shape is something that has to be prioritised. I have 2 young sons so I do not want to look like a burst mattress when they grow up. At the moment I have a knee injury, which I sustained in January and will have to get operated on so that has limited what I can train in this year. But generally I try to do as much Yoga as possible so I can maintain and increase flexibility as well as help with my breathing. I was introduced to Yoga in 1997 by my friend Terry Barnett but it is only in the last three years I have started to practice seriously. I also do Kettlebell’s and general weight training for strength and conditioning. Also if you roll for any length of time with good partners that becomes a conditioning workout on its own. I also hit the bag for 4-8 rounds 3-5 times a week and maintain the Filipino weaponry and trapping.

KC: Finally Rick, without taking any more of your time. Earlier this year Maurição “Motta” Gomes was promoted (alongside Romero “Jacare” Cavalcanti and Sergio Penha) to the Red & Black belt (7^th degree) in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. (Whilst the actual quote escapes me at this time) A reference was made to the fact that it was Maurição that brought Gracie Barra Jiu Jitsu to the United Kingdom and it was Maurição that was also responsible for the birth of a new generation of Gracie Barra black belts in 2005.

Since your promotion to black belt in 2005, along with Marc Walder and Jude Samuel, BJJ obviously has gained in popularity immensely since then. Arguably the biggest advance in UK BJJ was indeed its arrival in the 1990’s, another landmark, as was alluded to, was the promotion of the UK’s first group of resident ‘Barra’ Faixa Preta. What in you opinion does UK BJJ have to accomplish to take it to the next level and how do think we can achieve that feat?

RY: First of all I have to say how great it was to watch Mestre Gomes get his red and black belt. I was so pleased for him. He is the best BJJ instructor I have ever had, I feel like I know nothing about BJJ when he is teaching me. Also his massive contribution to the development of BJJ in the UK should not go unnoticed.

I think the level of BJJ in the UK is great and is getting better and better. There are so many great players in the UK now it can only go forward in a positive way as long as we don’t start to fight each other and make it hard for other camps outside of our own. I am astonished at how talented practitioners are getting in a short period of time; it is amazing to watch some of the developments of the art and the people practicing it. The art will grow both in numbers and in the talent pool organically just as it has done in the last ten years or so. The depth of talent at Black, brown and purple is already there; we just have to make sure it is nurtured positively. If we stick together and avoid personal and political infighting we can only go from strength to strength and in the long run that will benefit everyone regardless of affiliation.

KC: Rick, thank you so much for taking time to answer my questions today. Have you anything you would like to add to finish the article or any people you would particularly like to thank?

RY: I would just say that I think it would be great if we all focused on the positive aspects of what the arts have to offer us and try to be as positive and respectful as we can about fellow practitioners and teachers. Don’t worry about who is tapping who or who has the darkest belt, as long as you are learning from every session, training hard, and being true to your goals then you are ahead of the game and going toward fulfilling your own personal potential, which in the end will not only benefit yourself but also those around you.

I would like to thank all of my instructors for teaching and sharing the various arts with me. As I look back now over the last 35 years of training I feel truly blessed in what I have gained from these people. I will never attain what these men have in my lifetime but it gives me something to look up to and follow as I continue training here in 2010 and in the future.

KC: Thanks Rick

RY: Thank you David

Interview by David Webb, 9th July 2010

KombatClinic.com: Hi Romulo, thanks for giving us your time for this interview. It really means a lot that one of the world’s top pound-for-pound Jiu Jitsoka’s has given up time to answer questions for KombatClinic.com. I know you are still recovering from the damage to your ACL and medial collateral ligament that occurred last month at the Mundials, I guess your pretty frustrated with not being able to hit the mats as normal, right? How long before you can get fully back into training?

Romulo Barral: My knee is okay, im going to have surgery next week so i should be 100% by November/December.

KC: 2x Brazilian Cup Champion, 4x Brazilian Champion, 2x World Cup Champion, 6x Pan American Champion, 6x World Champion and voted by ‘Tatame’ magazine as the #1 Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt in the World for 2007. That’s a pretty impressive haul of titles and accolades, which of these are you most proud of achieving and why?

RB: I am proud of winning all of them.

KC: I believe you received your black belt from Vincius “Draculino” Magalhaes back in December 2005 and it is often said that black belt in any martial art is by no means the end of the road; rather this is when training and development truly begins, constant refinement and adjustments mean that even as a black belt you are continually learning. Most people would find it hard to comprehend how a guy of your stature in the world of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu could still be learning new things when you hit the mats.

Do you personally set goals to improve you game over time?

RB: Yes I do. To help me work harder.

KC: Like far more regular Jiu Jitsoka do you ever experience training plateaus or ‘sticking points’ in your development? If so, how do you get over them to ensure continual development and progression?

RB: When I am training I am not always doing my ‘A’ game im always developing new things everyday, and the most important thing is to not have an ego when you train.

KC: Recently you have posted clips online of old footage of you rolling or in competition. It is often said, “we are our own worst critics”, are you the type of guy that watches those videos and will happily critique yourself?

RB: No not really, I actually always wonder how I could move my body in those ways when I was younger.

KC: You can probably see improvements and gains between the videos mentioned and the Romulo Barral that competes today, how much further can you develop your game to achieve that absolute Mundials crown that has so far eluded you?

RB: I think I am getting close; it just has to be a good day, mentally prepared.

KC: Along with Xande Ribeiro you have reached the Mundials Absolute final twice now (2009 & 2010) both times set to meet Roger. Roger is an extreme force in all forms of grappling and people have offered explanations time and time again as to why he is so phenomenal. Some argue it is his fundamentals; some say it is his body type and many contend it is a combination of both. Even your nemesis at this year’s Mundials – Tarsis Humphreys – exclaimed that Roger “is doing different Jiu Jitsu”. What do you suggest makes Roger so good and how are you guys going to overcome this to beat the guy considered the best BJJ practitioner of the decade?

RB: Roger, when he gets a good position you’re done. He simply doesn’t lose any position.
If you want to beat him I think you have to be one step ahead of him the whole ten minutes.

KC: Over at your facebook fan page you described your typical diet: how it simply consists of good clean food and lots of water. Do you currently take any supplements and what kind of activities do you do off of the mats as ancillary/supplementary training to benefit your Jiu Jitsu?

RB: Yes I do and I do my strength and conditioning with my coach Leo Frincu you can check him out on facebook or http://leofrincu.com

KC: I remember ahead of the 2009 Mundials seeing images of you working out (along with Roger and Braulio) under the supervision of Martin Rooney. Does Martin still help out with your strength and conditioning and what sorts of methodologies or exercise modalities are you currently working to improve your game?

RB: He helps me when I go to New York, I think its important for Jiu-Jitsu to have strong grip so you can do pull ups with the Gi, climb rope, make sure you have strong legs and strong abs, I think that’s the best for Jiu-Jitsu

KC: In your opinion, in today’s competition environment how much do you attest strength and conditioning accounting for the rift between the top-level guys at an event such as the Mundials or the Pan-Ams?

RB: It helps alot because the level of the fight is very similar, if you have strength and good conditioning with talent, together you can be very good.

KC: A number of the top Jiu Jitsu athletes have conducted seminars across the US off the back of successes at this years Mundials either through opportunity or respite from training. The same occurred straight after ADCC 2009 (Barcelona) and the Abu Dhabi Pro in April of this year, with many European countries reaping the benefits of hosting world champion grapplers on their way home to either the US or Brazil. I understand that you will be doing a seminar tour across the US and Europe around September of this year. What can the guys and girls that are looking to attend expect from a session with Romulo Barral?

RB: It will not be September, maybe November or January. You can expect to learn all my techniques, the way I train, and anything they want to learn from me.
If anyone wants to schedule a seminar they can contact me at romulobarral@gmail.com

KC: Currently I believe you are based at Gracie Barra Texas and train under Vinicius “Draculino” Magalhaes. Has Draculino always been you instructor from the day you started?

RB: He has been my instructor since blue belt, before that my instructor was one of Draculino’s students Cristiano Titi.

KC: I suppose with this in mind you could be considered as 2nd generation Jiu Jitsoka from Brazil in the United States of America. Recently the issue of the lineage of some guys in the US has been called into question through dubious instructors and belt holders, indeed Draculino touched upon ‘aeroplane’ black belts in the US.

What is it like training under and representing a guy like Draculino? A guy whom Royler considered his toughest ever opponent and also someone, so experienced, he shared early training experiences with the likes of Renzo, Ralph, Ryan [Gracie] and the Machado’s. It must be cool to have such a charismatic and well-respected coach in your corner, right?

RB: Draculino is the best; it’s an honour to fight for him!

KC: What is the support mechanism like at Draculino’s academy in terms of competitive preparations? I know Draculino is also responsible for producing guys such as Pablo Silva and Samuel Braga, have you many guys their to roll with at your weight and level or must you travel elsewhere to prepare for an event such as the Mundials?

RB: Im located in Los Angeles now Teaching at Gracie Barra Encino, I travel to Gracie Barra America and ‘Babalu’s’ gym Gracie Barra Ceritos, a couple times a week to train with the top level guys there, also I train with my students at my academy.

KC: Speaking of Pablo Silva and Samuel Braga, in a recent interview (the Fightworks Podcast #216) Kid Peligro was heard speaking about athletes from the same team ‘closing off’ brackets and how, as a spectator and someone who loves the sport, doesn’t like to see it.

Obviously there is the argument about friendships and athletes training together daily at their academies but the same could be said for you and Roger in 2009 where you both seemed more than happy to fight for the gold. What are your views on teammates ‘closing out’ brackets in the fashion that Marcelo Garcia and Sergio Moraes (Alliance) did in 2009 and Pablo Silva and Samuel Braga (Gracie Barra) did this year?

RB: My opinion is that the best way is that they will fight, if someone wont give me the gold then I would want to fight for the gold.

KC: In a recent interview on KombatClinic.com we spoke with another Mundials victor, 2010 champion – Hillary Williams, where we discussed the pressures of consistent results as a competitor. You are one of the top five pound for pound Jiu Jitsoka in the world right now with two absolute finals under your belt is there ever that kind of pressure for you to succeed or do you not think about at all and is it rather a case of get on the mat, apply you game or strategy and be the best you can on that day?

RB: No pressure when I train hard, I just go there and have some fun.

KC: Finally Romulo, there has been a lot of talk of a slight ‘regression’ in fighters attitudes at this years Mundials, with some fighters appearing quite happy to settle for a win at any cost; even a slight advantage. I suppose at this level one mistake can cost a world championship gold so everyone becomes a little reserved in trying to apply their game.

This year, like 2009, we saw a tremendous amount of strategic grip fighting amongst top end players. Whilst the athletes are there to win and everyone accepts and appreciates the finer points of each match, do you agree that more has to be done by some fighters to impose their skill set on a match and ultimately seek that submission? 

RB: I try to push the pace and finish the fight if I can, but at that level its hard, so sometimes you got to do what you got to do to take the gold home.

KC: Romulo, once again, thank you very much for taking time out to talk to KombatClinic.com, I have really enjoy putting my questions to you and could have gone on for much longer. Before we wrap up the interview is there anyone you would like to personally thank, maybe sponsors or teammates?

RB: I want to thank God, my wife, my family, Draculino, Leo my strength and conditioning coach, my training partners in Brasil and in America.

KC: Thank you Romulo!

RB: Thank you guys for the opportunity for the interview!