Steve Maxwell: Relson Gracie black belt, revolutionary strength and conditioning coach and father to Zak Maxwell (2009 Mundials champion at Brown belt [featherweight], US Open weight Champion, Pan-Am Champion and [Brown belt] Gracie Worlds Absolute Champion. For those of you that are not aware of Steve he is the type of guy always at the cutting edge of the newest martial arts and fitness craze as they first emerge. Starting Jiu Jitsu in the late 1980’s Steve is a former NCAA Division One wrestler and can claim to be Relson Gracie’s first US BJJ black belt. Steve Maxwell was also the first man in the fitness industry within the United States to stage a Kettlebell seminar, open a Kettlebell specific gym and is responsible for spreading this modality of exercise the world over.

Responsible for taking Gracie Jiu Jitsu to the East coast of the United States (in particular Philadelphia and Atlantic City) Steve has been responsible for starting many Jiu Jitsu careers including those of the Phil and Ricardo Migliarese and Jerod Weiner [Lloyd Irvin affiliate]. A Pan-Am Champion at Purple and Brown belt and an International BJJ Master-Seniors Champion in his own right Steve continues to train BJJ and now runs a Gracie Jiu Jitsu programme in Port Townsend, WA.

In this interview with KombatClinic.com Steve talks candidly about his background in the martial arts and fitness industry and well as his relationships with many of the Gracie family, including Helio, Relson, Royler and both Saulo and Xande Ribeiro, he also discusses the recent emergence of his son Zak to the eyes of World Jiu Jitsu and shares some of his own views of Jiu Jitsu and the way things are progressing in our sport.

Enjoy!

By David Webb, 05 February 2010

Interview:

KombatClinic.com: Hi Steve, thanks for taking time out to give our readers this interview. You have a very extended background in training per se, which includes conditioning some quite high profile athletes from most sports [including Brazilian Jiu Jitsu] and you were also one of the first American guys to become involved with BJJ. For those readers that don’t know too much about Steve Maxwell could you give us a brief background to how you started BJJ and how you got to where you are today?

Steve Maxwell: My dad, a former navy boxer, taught my brother and I how to throw down in early grade school. We lived in a rural development with a lot of kids in the neighborhood and fights were not at all uncommon. I didn’t really like boxing and–when getting the worst of it–I’d get mad, tear the gloves off and take my opponent to the ground. I was small and weak for my age and so became a subject of interest to the local bullies and playground toughs. One kid in particular seemed delighted in making my life miserable.

My dad decided to toughen me up. He bought me a barbell set for my eleventh birthday and took me down to the famous York  Barbell Club (at the time, the mecca of Olympic weightlifting in the US) to watch the all-time greats working out. My dad also enrolled me in my school’s wrestling program.  I took to wrestling like an otter to water–I had a real knack for it. All the pudge burned off my waist and I turned lean, chiseled and strong. With this, my confidence grew and all those bullies who had caused me so much anxiety before got their comeuppances–one after the other–in a series of dramatic after-school showdowns. Despite being on the  small side, I was now one of the strongest kids at school and no one wanted to mess with me. 

These early life lessons helped me a lot later. I continued wrestling all the way through Division 1 NCAA and, later, in the US Army.  After my wrestling career was up, I  was  left searching for something to fill the void–what do you go with wrestling skills after college? I trained in other martial arts–Kung fu, Marate, Muay Thai and Kenpo–but they left me unfulfilled; I was a grappler at heart.

I discovered Gracie Jiujitsu in the late 1980’s when I was basically dragged by a friend to their first seminar on the east coast. I was really impressed and realized that this  was what I had been seeking. I made many trips from Philly out to the Torrance, CA. academy and then I’d come back and train with my friends, showing them everything I’d learned. A year later, I opened the first Gracie jiujitsu training association and–the first BJJ school on the eastern seaboard. The Gracies thanked me for bringing their jiujitsu to the east coast. For many years, I trained daily at my school, Maxercise. I also trained with all the sons of Helio Gracie, as well as Helio himself. I was very fortunate to have access to Master Helio. With Royce, I stayed as a guest at Helio’s country home for a month.  I also had opportunities to train with other high-level Gracie practitioners as well as the more distant Gracie family members. I was the first North American authorized to teach Gracie jiujitsu by the family. Later, the Gracie family went through some upheavals and split-ups. The brothers went their separate ways and I stayed with Relson, Helio’s second son, earning a black belt in 2000, in Honolulu. I was Relson’s first North American black belt.

My gym, Maxercise, was a training hub and destination in those early days. We were the only school around and people traveled from all over to train with us.   Thus I began hosting frequent Gracie seminars in Philadelphia and Atlantic City.  

KombatClinic.com: And are you currently actively involved in teaching? And if so, where are based right now? 

SM: I recently moved to Port Townsend, WA where I’ve started up a Gracie jiujitsu program at the Port Townsend Athletic Club, teaching three public classes a week and limited privates.

KombatClinic.com: With wrestling from a young age and progressing to a Division 1 NCAA wrestler was there an immediate crossover in learning BJJ or was it hard to remove the wrestlers mentality of not allowing your back to the mat and the constant competitiveness that is so akin to wrestlers at that level?

SM: My wrestling skills easily transferred to jiujitsu but still, initially I had to make some adjustments and change my way of thinking. Not using excessive strength was the hardest lesson to learn. 

KombatClinic.com: Was there much of a reaction amongst your peers from wrestling when you became immersed in Jiu Jitsu? Were they inquisitive about following you to see what this new system entailed or would you say they were far more dismissive after the years of wrestling?

SM: Wrestlers–as a general rule–are a hard headed lot. Because their training is so tough and they’re in such great shape, they tend to be formidable. If they’ve had success fighting, they think they already know everything they need to know.  The first time they roll with a good jiujitsu man, a wrestler is typically shocked. He’ll then either be sold on learning jiujitsu, or disappear.

KombatClinic.com: I read an interview with you recently where you speak of first becoming involved with Rorian [Gracie] at his Torrance Academy and literally having to travel from Philadelphia and stay over for weeks at a time before returning with new techniques to drill and teach. Were there any other guys doing the same back then, trying to learn from the Gracie’s to take back to their respective parts of the US and are that are still involved with BJJ to the same degree as you are today?

SM: I’m sure there are, but I’ve lost touch with everyone from those days. While many started out on the long, hard road of earning a black belt from the Gracies, many fell along the wayside and few made it. The Gracies set such a high standard for teaching excellence and I saw my peers becoming frustrated and disillusioned.  A lot of the early guys were good practitioners, but poor teachers. The Gracies placed a high value on the ability to teach. Effective teaching is a rare talent.

KombatClinic.com: In the same interview you speak of some differences of opinion, shall we say, between many of the Gracie’s? This extended into different factions of the family branching off in their own way to develop the system of BJJ, some with a passion for the sport whilst others stuck with the self-defence attitude. At this point what was it that appealed to you more about following Relson as opposed to staying under the tutelage of Rorian and his Torrance Academy?

SM: My decision to stay with Relson was for personal reasons; Rorion actually had a great self defense program and was the superior teacher. 

KombatClinic.com: Do you still have any affiliation to Relson Gracie and or the Gracie’s as a whole?

SM: I no longer have any direct affiliation with the Gracies. I am friendly with Royler and I recently trained him in kettlebells when I was in San Diego. Rickson’s son, Kron, also participated in some of my group conditioning circuits in prep for the BJJ Worlds and ADCC.

KombatClinic.com: I read that having stayed true to the more self-defence orientated Jiu Jitsu philosophy with Relson that your sport Jiu Jitsu game never really took off until you started working with Saulo and Alexandre Ribeiro and that you feel you missed the ‘half-guard’ revolution almost entirely. Having seen how much BJJ has changed in terms of innovative techniques since you started (X-guard, rubber guard, 50/50 guard, and so on), in terms of strategies and positions how much further can you see the athletes of today taking BJJ? Or are you more of the inclination that Jiu Jitsu will almost come full-circle and return to the more simplistic methods of winning, much in the same way that Roger Gracie seems to do so effortlessly?

SM: That’s not entirely true, that my sports game didn’t take off.  As a purple belt, I won the Pan Ams, and again as a brown belt.  I also won the International Master-Seniors as a brown belt–twice!  All using my basic Gracie jiu jitsu skills.  It was when I started training at Saulo’s Heavy Duty Gym in Copacabana that I first became aware of this whole other side of sports jiu jitsu.

And it wasn’t Saulo and Xande that made me good–although they did work with me.  I give that credit to Regis Lebre, Saulo’s first black belt. Regis was a turning point in my jiujitsu education. I was very impressed with his teaching and coaching skills; he taught me the modern sport jiujitsu game very well.  He’s a world-class competitor, but he an even better coach and teacher. I brought him up from Brazil to help me run Maxercise and worked with me in Philly for many years. He’s still my son’s coach. Roger Gracie has certainly proven that old-school Gracie Jiujitsu-101 works even at the world class level. He doesn’t use anything that any blue belt doesn’t know, but his timing, precision, set-ups and execution come from a lifetime of training. 

Not long ago I had a private lesson from Royler and he’s also very basic in his approach, also one of the all-time winning-est players out there.  The lesson?  We worked on the basic X-choke and scissors sweep. How’s that for basics? Here we have a what? 6- degree black belt giving a 3-degree black belt a lesson and it’s what–X-choke and scissors sweep.  And he was so effective with it, you wouldn’t even think about passing his guard, you’re just thinking about…surviving! Saulo and Xande also stick with the basics they learned from the Gracie family: solid foundational moves done to perfection–nothing fancy or complicated. 

For sure, the real stylistic BJJ guys don’t fare so well in the MMA world.  These non-basics/sports jiu jitsu guys are finding out that in real world combat they get killed. It’s good to know the slicker moves so you don’t get tricked, but once you understand them, they’re defeated pretty easily.

KombatClinic.com: Having been based in Philadelphia there are some great BJJ academies and athletes based there, if I am correct, with the Migliarese brothers’ balance studios, a Lloyd Irvin affiliate and Kenny and Keith Florian. Did you ever work with any of these guys?

SM: Anybody who’s anybody in jiu jitsu in Philadelphia and the tri-state area of PA, NJ and DE got their start at Maxercise, with some few exceptions.  The Florians are up in Boston. I got the Migliarese brothers started when they just kids. I actually paid for Phil Migliarese to attend the Gracie teacher training program. Jared Weiner (the Lloyd Irvin affiliate) also has his roots at Maxercise. He was a teenage skateboard champ and wanted to learn self-defense.  

KombatClinic.com: I read a piece where you mentioned that [although there are some really great instructors out there] in your opinion the further you move away from the original Gracie source of Jiu Jitsu the weaker the art had become – almost watered down. You also mention that people are utilising the digital age more now, through DVD’s and the Internet to achieve belt rankings.

A while ago there were some controversial statements and discussions online between some very high profile Jiu Jitsu guys that just happened to be Gracie family members on the issue of such training/learning. I’m guessing you believe that it is always better to receive instruction first hand with a qualified instruction and that back in the old days, VHS was the best most people could get but what is your opinion on such ‘internet instruction’? Can it be good for BJJ or do you think that gradually the ‘watering down’ of Jiu Jitsu is just going to get worse?

SM: DVDs are not–and never will be–a substitute for training with a qualified “meat” instructor.  DVDs are certainly better than nothing, but training under the watchful eye of a qualified black belt is the best way. Without supervision, it’s so easy to build bad habits and mistakes into your game. DVDs provide a good supplement to live instruction and as useful guides for beginning instructors.

The watering down aspect comes from fake black belts not worthy of their rank. Because of the demand for qualified instructors, some dishonorable guys, in pursuit of money, promoted themselves to black belt (or were promoted by other, weak instructors) and set up schools.  In remote places without access to good jiu jitsu, a purple belt  is like a demi-god to a newbie. No one wants to train with a purple belt or brown belt if they have a black belt available. So these guys get their belts through dubious means to impress their students and make themselves seem to be more qualified than what they are. Actually these students under bogus instructors would be better off training with a really qualified, top level purple belt. You can tell pretty easily if the instructor is the real deal or not. His lineage can be easily traced through the federation. The fake guys rarely, if ever compete for fear of being exposed. When they do compete, they get trounced first round. Sometimes they make up fake titles, but a little research reveals the truth. The International BJJ federation keeps names and records of all the place winners, including the Brazilian national title holders. It seems like every Brazilian opening a school is a Brazilian national champion.

The other watering down aspect is the emphasis only on the sport of jiujitsu. The Gracie Self defense System is little known by even good black belts in the sportive side of jiujitsu. Helio Gracie developed a fantastic and very street effect self defense system designed to keep one safe against bigger, stronger and faster assailants. With the advent of MMA, many consider standing and slugging it out with kick boxing to be an effective stand up self defense. It’s not unless you’re an exceptional athlete or really big and strong. Even then, there is always the law suit and legal ramification aspect of breaking some ones jaw or knocking out teeth. It’s a good way to get beat up or killed. Helio’s stand up self defense is beautiful in it’s simplicity and effectiveness. It gives the option of treating an assailant in a humane manner without causing serious injury or causing serious damage. With punching and kicking, one doesn’t have that option. The punches and kicks either smash the guy or they don’t work.

KombatClinic.com: Cool. Let’s move onto the conditioning aspect a little more as many may recognise you more from your work in the exercise industry, especially through the modality of the Kettlebell. We had an interview with Josh Brown who is responsible for the conditioning of such athletes as Rubens “Cobrinha” Charles. I know you work with both Saulo and Xande Ribeiro but in your opinion how do Jiu Jitsu athletes compare to regular individuals or athletes from different sporting backgrounds in terms of their General Physical Preparedness and work ethic towards conditioning?

SM: Jiu jitsu training is very strenuous and energy consuming; grappling is a form of resistance training. You must be careful not to over do the volume and exhaust yourself.

All supplemental training needs to be carefully doled out, with constant monitoring for signs of over reaching and under-recovery. Conditioning training for jiujitsu is as much art as science. Because Jiujitsu is a year-round activity, there is no “off” season, nor is the conditioning required ever general–it is always specific. Balance is key. In jiu jitsu, the important thing isn’t necessarily the working muscles, but those muscles not working. It’s best to place the focus on injury prevention, over-use and otherwise.  This is the foundation of my conditioning system.

KombatClinic.com: Could you tell us how you became involved in using, teaching and producing certifications for exercise with the Kettlebell? I ask because you seem to have been around since the craze started.

SM: I was the very first man with the kettlebelI. I’ve always been the guy ahead of the curve because it is my nature to upset the status quo in seeking better ways of doing things.  From the beginning, my training  was geared toward better athletic performance as opposed to lifting in an effort to be good at lifting. For this reason, I eschewed power and Olympic weight lifting as unproductive for athletic achievement–ditto for bodybuilding and muscle spinning.

Kettlebell training was a natural for me. I was experimenting in my back yard with a set of home-made kettlebells before the trend hit.

After meeting Pavel [Ed. note: Pavel Tsatsouline] at the Arnold, I was invited as an instructor to the first RKC. I taught the first group kettlebell classes in the US and set up the first kettlebell gym. I’ve spent hundreds of hours in the group fitness classroom and tit’s given me the chance to experiment and form my ideas.

I enjoyed my time with the RKC but realized I had more to offer people and further, I didn’t want to represent anyone but myself.  After leaving, it occurred to me that my kettlebell experience was a real asset, especially in teaching group classes, and that it was time to offer my knowledge and experience to those who cared to learn from me. 

KombatClinic.com: What does your certification involve?

SM: My Maxbell teacher training level I certification is a two day training workshop. The time is spent perfecting the basic kettlebell movements and learning the basic steps in how to teach them to others. Much emphasis is placed on form, technique and safety. Classroom organization, workout construction and design and professional teaching skills are emphasized. I have had many former RKC I and II graduates attend my course and they felt that I filled in many gaps missing from their training. 

The level II course builds on the first one, with more emphasis on double kettlebell drills. Advanced workout concepts are introduced such as my metabolic pairs training, advanced circuit design and the kettlebell complex drills. Covered also is the preparation and conditioning of competitive athletes and how to set up programs.

I also teach a bodyweight exercise and a Joint Mobility certification. I go into detail on the proper alignment, efficiency and progressions of body weight exercise. I teach many unusual exercises and techniques. Students are always wowed and come away with a lot of practical information on how to implement, teach and combine body weight exercises with their current programs.

KombatClinic.com: I read in an interview that you a firm believer in having a tailored conditioning programme that is dependant on the vigour’s of the sport that you are involved (I think the example you used was working with Saulo Ribeiro just before his ADCC appearance in Sao Paulo) with the specifics in mind what are you opinions on more generalised exercise prescriptions and conditioning for BJJ and work such as the CrossFit programme? I ask because many grapplers are drawn to this philosophy of training due to its more functional movements when compared to many other types.

SM: Training is only functional if it makes you better at doing those particular activities in which you desire to excel.

Grappling requires a very specific conditioning system and working within a general/non-specific program, like CrossFit is wastes your valuable time, energy, and recovery on skills and activities that don’t improve your grappling game. CrossFit has no rhyme or reason to it. It’s seemingly random, based upon the whimsy of those posting the programs. For people who don’t play an actual sport, I suppose CrossFit can serve some psychological or motivational purpose, but making your workout a competition, trying to beat an arbitrary time or rep number is simply not intelligent training.

Grappling and combat sports are the ultimate competition. All other competitions pale in comparison to stepping into a ring or mat to commence mano e mano combat–and anyone who says differently has never fought. In this sport, training must be purposeful in addressing a specific need or strengthening a specific weakness. I am not at all against training as a generalist; that is, not training specifically to be great at any one activity, but becoming good at many things.

Yet excellence requires specificity and grappling in particular is a demanding lover who won’t tolerate stepping out. 

KombatClinic.com: If you were asked to choose one modality for grappling conditioning, which would it be? I’m guessing the Kettlebell and if so, why?

SM: Well, you guessed wrong! (Ed. note: Whoops!)

Bodyweight training is the way to go, people have known this for more than 2000 years. I’m talking about body weight in all its forms, from yoga to strength work on gymnastic apparatus; there is no reason to chose only one modality. Why limit yourself? Nothing is ever so simple, yet neither should it be overly complicated. I use kettlebells, clubbells, macebells, Bulgarian bags, sandbags, heavy rocks, logs, gymnastic apparatus, climbing ropes and even dumbbells and barbells should the situation call for it. Mastery comes with knowing which tool for which purpose and why and how to use it.

KombatClinic.com: Your son, Zak Maxwell, is currently the 2009 Mundials champion at Brown belt (featherweight) and has just won the (Brown belt) Gracie Worlds Absolute crown in LA where he submitted all of five his opponents that must be an immensely proud feeling. Fighting for Gracie Humaitá, does that mean he is based at the University of Jiu Jitsu under the Ribeiro’s or somewhere else?

SM: Zak has trained since being in diapers. He was training before he had cognition he was training. Besides the world title you mentioned, he’s also the current Pan American champ and US Open Weight National Champ. He recently opened his own school in Philadelphia with black belt Brian Rago, where he’s based, but travels to San Diego now and again to prep with Regis Lebre.  He is affiliated with Royler Gracie and Gracie Humaita. (There was a split from the Ribeiro’s)

KombatClinic.com: Were you at both events to see his victory’s?

SM: I’ve missed the last couple of events due to travel and seminars. We keep in close contact and I always get the blow-by-blow first-hand account. 

KombatClinic.com: Do you have any capacity in helping Zak prepare for competitions, I mean in terms of conditioning knowledge?

SM: Zak trained in my system from the time he was in pre-school. He’s a poster boy for the type of specific grappling conditioning I represent.

At this point, if Zak asks me for support I offer what I can.  If he needs any supplemental training, he talks to me about it.  My partner, Teresa, and I have helped him with his nutrition and weight control in prepping for tournaments–t’s not easy to cut 3-4 pounds of weight before a fight when you’re ripped!  At least in a way that isn’t detrimental to performance.  Teresa is extremely knowledgeable on the subject. It’s the best scenario: from the time he’s spent with me, Zak’s learned how to optimally condition himself.

KombatClinic.com: Steve, many thanks for your time in giving us this interview but before we wrap up are there any individuals you would like to acknowledge that you have worked with over the years and have you any message for any aspiring Jiu Jitsoka or strength and conditioning student?

SM: I’m grateful to my partner Teresa, for her support and without whom I wouldn’t be able to do many of the things that I do. I’m feeling appreciative of Gudjon Swannson at Kettlebells Iceland and John DiSimone at Maxercise for their efforts on my upcoming seminars. For jiujitsu, I thank Master Helio Gracie, his sons, and also Regis Lebre for his great teaching.

Anyone wishing to learn my kettlebell system and body weight training, check out the events page on my website MaxwellSC.com

I’m traveling a lot this spring and summer and I love meeting people and training! No matter what level you are, you can always get better; the key is consistency and dedication.  Look at this as a lifelong trek:  there is no ultimate destination, perfected form or technique.  What I want to tell you guys is to enjoy the journey–don’t be in such a rush!  Most guys are in such a hurry to get their black belt but why?  You get your black belt and it’s just like starting all over again! 

KombatClinic.com: Thanks Steve!

Possible links:
Steve Maxwell Website
Steve’s upcoming events & seminars