by David Webb, 28th January 2010

Luis “Limao” Heredia is one of a select few. Head Coach at Maui Jiu Jitsu in Hawaii he started Jiu Jitsu aged 14 in his native Brazil, soon afterwards he was granted access to THE most famous of martial arts legacies – the Gracie’s, a student under Master Helio Gracie and his sons, Rickson and Royler his skills were honed on the mats of the famous Gracie Humaita school until he was invited by Rickson to travel to the United States to help spread the word of Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

As the first purple belt in Gracie Jiu Jitsu to set foot on US soil ‘Limao’ helped spread the Gracie tradition across the US and also Japan alongside his instructor, mentor and friend Master Rickson Gracie. Now a highly regarded master of Jiu Jitsu in his own right he is highly respected and sought after coach the world over. It is a pleasure to have Luis Heredia on KombatClinic.com, I hope you enjoy his interview where he shares his experiences of Jiu Jitsu and what it means to be recognised as a Rickson Gracie black belt and part of the worlds fastest growing sport.

Interview:

KombatClinic.com: Luis, many thanks for agreeing to share your views and knowledge of Jiu Jitsu with us on KombatClinic.com, many of our readers will be very aware of who you are and what you have contributed to Jiu Jitsu over the years especially in the United States but could we start with a little background to you finding Jiu Jitsu, how you became involved with the sport and how you became such an integral part of Rickson Gracie’s group?

Luis ‘Limao’ Heredia: Jiu-Jitsu started for me when I was only 14 years old. Back then, in Rio, that was a natural age to begin jiu-jitsu unless you were a member of the Gracie family. As apposed to know, where generations are being born on the mat, including my own children. After training at a couple of different schools in Rio de Janeiro, I was intorduced by a friend to the famous Gracie Humaita school which was being run at the time by Master Helio Gracie and his sons, primarily Rickson and Royler.  After that, I found my new family, which I’m still very close and connected to until this present day. Around 1989, Rickson was invited by his brother Rorian to come to California to help promote & pioneer Gracie Jiu-jitsu in the US. That was when I was pulled onto the bandwagon. I was not only just a purple belt but the first Brazilian Purple belt in the US. Most of my life in Jiu-Jitsu has been here in the US.

KC: We could say that, in comparison, Rickson Gracie has awarded considerably less black belts than other members of the Gracie family and becoming a black belt under such a legend is complement in itself to your abilities. Given the number of black belts he has awarded (Yourself, Henry Akins, Marcelo Behring, Carlos Valente, “Megaton” Dias, Pedro Sauer and Fabio Santos to name just a few) are you a very close-knit group and do you meet, interact and support each other regularly?

LH: We always stay in contact, however, I stay the most connected with Rickson himself and work with Pedro Sauer and his amazing association. As for all the others, we stay in contact and support each in tournaments, seminars, and other events. As far as being one of the few Rickson Black Belts, I can say that it was a very harsh but rewarding path. I’m very grateful to have had the opportunity to not only train under him, but to be able to experience living with the legend for 3 years.

KC: You are the head coach and founder of Maui Jiu Jitsu in Hawaii; I would imagine the lifestyle in Maui is much the same as in Brazil. What made you decide to reside in Hawaii originally and in doing so develop BJJ on the island?

LH: After living in LA for 13 years, I had enough of the city life. So I did try to find a place to relocate that had a similar climate and lifestyle to Brazil.  Jiu-Jitsu is intuition and it can only be understood and developed when you are in connection with nature. Plus, Maui has a very special Aloha spirit! It is in the air, in the wind, in the trees, in the ocean, on the mountains, and in the people. I highly recommend anyone to experience Hawaii.

KC: Given the lifestyle is so similar to Brazil is there much difference in the passion, commitment, drive and attitudes towards training BJJ?

LH: Well, because of all of the points I’ve mentioned before, there is a huge difference in lifestyle between here and the rest of the world (not just Brazil). People are more laid back, we’re not in a such a hurry all the time, we take time to greet each other and we have appreciation for mother nature. That being, there is definitely way less distractions. All I know is Jiu-Jitsu is being loved everywhere by everyone.

KC: Hawaii is known as being a great ‘breeding ground’ for first class quality Jiu Jitsu. One of the patriarch’s of modern Jiu Jitsu – Master Relson Gracie has been established on the island for over 20 years, is Maui Jiu Jitsu in anyway affiliated to Master Relson?

LH: Well because of my tightly knit relationship with him, his brothers and his family, I guess I can say that I am very affiliated with Master Relson. He comes to our school once or twice a year.

KC: I know you are a very competent and keen surfer and living on the island I can imagine you get plenty of opportunities to hit the waves. Surfing has quite an affinity with Jiu Jitsu, the world over, and athletes from both regularly cross-train [cross-compete]. Do you believe it is the relaxed nature and the almost paralleled culture that has help both evolve or is there some other, more physical [athletic] reason for such a relationship?

LH: Definitely that was one of the main reasons why I decided to come to Maui. Killer waves, clean water, plenty of seafood. Surfing has been in my life even before Jiu-Jitsu. I started surfing at age 10 in Copacabana, Arpoador, and all over Rio. So there is a straight connection as far as cross training. Not only on the physical aspect but mostly on the mental & spiritual aspect.

KC: I am finding it increasingly difficult to pose questions for Luis Heredia with asking or at least referring to Master Rickson Gracie! You have been involved with Rickson’s Jiu Jitsu from the very beginning and helped facilitate the spread much of Gracie Jiu Jitsu across the United States and well as being by Rickson’s side at the early Japan Vale Tudo events. What sort of an effect has being a student had on your Jiu Jitsu and as a human being in general?

LH: This would be at least a 10 page answer. For the most part, he means the world to me. Sometimes like an older brother, sometimes like a father, many times as a teacher and mentor, and sometimes just like any regular friend. I definitely think that I was very lucky to be drawn to such a powerful human being. My life reflects today all that I’ve learned from Master Rickson. I’m very grateful that he was the one that showed me the way.

KC: Outside of the effect that Rickson Gracie has had on you who else from the world of Jiu Jitsu or indeed, outside of the sport has had a profound effect on your development as a young Jiu Jitsoka and more recently, a coach?

LH: His father, brothers, and whole bunch of training partners. Let’s put it this way, you’ll be learning Jiu-Jitsu until the day you die. I’m a very open person and coach as well. I learned a lot from teaching and from my students game.

KC: Could you take a minute to reminisce what it must have been like to be part of the original group of guys that help export and develop BJJ in America? Were you ever part of the regular challenges imposed by wrestlers at the time that were a little bemused and doubtful of Jiu Jitsu’s effectiveness and can you remember any of the US guys that started back in the day that are still active today?

LH: I can never erase my first moments of wondering, doubts, skepticism, but I always trusted my teachers and most of all, Jiu-Jitsu. The challenges weren’t only from wrestlers, but also from all other styles of martial arts. The challenges and doubts where quite prevalent but they were a necessary part of the expansion and growth of not only myself, but also Jiu-Jitsu. There is so many guys from those days that are still involved in jiu-jitsu and of course MMA. Some as instructors, some as fighters. But anyway, it feels good to have helped introduce so many good people and fighters to jiu-jitsu.

KC: On the flip side to the skepticism experienced in the United States in the late 1980’s early 1990’s, the Japanese have great faith in Jiu Jitsu and its effectiveness. What was it like travelling with Rickson, a man who is such revered in Japan?

LH: One of the other great experiences of my life. Getting to travel to the place that it all began. I have great respect for the way they treat martial artists in their country. Especially when traveling with Rickson Gracie. 

KC: On the Maui Jiu Jitsu Website you talk about having taken part in a seminar given by Rickson the day following his second victory (1995) at the Japan Vale Tudo event – the very same event that featured on the film ‘Choke’. What was the atmosphere like in that hall? You mention that there must have been some “200 guys there, some from the national Japanese Judo team”?

LH: I guess there were way more than 200, actually almost 400 guys. Although, at the end of the seminar, we were put through the test by at least 200 of those guys. Which was split between Rickson (Black), Royler (Black), Rockson(Purple), Fernando “Dentinho” (Purple), and myself (Brown). My assignment to get my Black belt, was to prove again, the efficiency of Gracie jiu-jitsu. I turned on the “automatic pilot” and went for it! Got one round with 14 guys straight and the second round with 15 guys straight. Finished them all, returned to LA and got my Black belt in 1995. It’s been 15 years already! Unbelievable!

KC: Rickson Gracie definitely has a legacy that will continue for a very long time to come and with that he shares much in the same as Carlos, his father Helio, Carlson and Rolls. Two other Gracie family members who are reaching inspirational heights are Roger and Rickson’s son Kron. I am not 100% sure whether Kron appeared on the “Choke” documentary and whilst I’m not suggesting for one minute that he is trying to emulate his fathers achievements in BJJ, rather paving his own way, with you knowing Rickson for such a long time, how many similarities are their between Kron and a young Rickson Gracie?

LH: The apple will never fall far from the tree. Even though they’re different individuals with different bodies, Kron is definitely paving his own way. He’s adapting the new way of playing the game with the old Gracie jiu-jitsu basics. Although he’s still young and has great potential, it is not easy to up hold the legacy of Rickson Gracie.

KC: Do you do much in the way of travelling in the name of Jiu Jitsu? I understand you have just returned from Paris, France, was this for seminars or general sightseeing/travelling?

If the trip was for a seminar, and in your opinion, how do the Europeans stack up as students in terms of those in the United States and Brazil? Is there much difference in attitudes and commitment to training between the two?

LH: Maybe by the time this is published, I’ll be back from Paris already! It is true that I do a lot of traveling to promote and to teach Jiu-jitsu all over the world. I feel honored and obligated at the same time to share this amazing experience with as many people as I can. I don’t have a preferred place. They all mean the same to me. Every dojo I go to I treat as a church. I’m sure I’ll have a great time in Europe and look forward to the trip.

KC: Recently I read an article that stated that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is one of the fastest growing sports in the UK. This has to be, in part, to the immense exposure events such as the Ultimate Fighting Championships has received of late and the media coverage that the fighters experience. As a result of Jiu Jitsu’s popularity we are seeing many more championships being staged here in the UK, indeed at the last count we have 6 between now and the end of march. I understand the in Brazil tournaments are staged almost each and every weekend, but in your opinion how important is competing in the development of a Jiu Jitsoka?

LH: I am at heart a competitor. I strongly believe that any competition is a valuable source to self understanding. You can really see where your level of preparation and experience is at. Even though I had the pleasure of standing on the podium a good amount of times in my life, my most important lessons came from the defeats. So why not compete, at least once.

KC: Staying on the subject of competing, Abu Dhabi World Professional Jiu-Jitsu Cup 2010 is scheduled for April with rumored total prize money in excess of $150,000. The European Championships is scheduled for the end of January and paradoxically will be charging aspiring competitors upwards of £85.00 ($138.00) to enter (that is without flights, transfers, accommodation and food). I believe there are tournaments in the United States that too award prize money and although nothing like the rewards offered by the Abu Dhabi World Professional Jiu-Jitsu Cup, make competing a much more appealing opportunity. In your opinion is prize money bad for the sport of Jiu Jitsu or is it the way to go if Jiu Jitsu is to challenge and enter into the realms of professional sport?

LH: I think it’s amazing incentive for the competitor. I wish that they had those kind of tournaments back when I was just starting to compete. I think you can still be a soul fighter and still reap the benefits of hard work.

KC: Luis thanks once again for taking time to answer my questions it has been a true honor having you on KombatClinic.com before we finish is there any message you would like to pass to our readers or are there any individuals that would like to mention or thank?

LH: I am very thankful to all those that helped me to reach the level I am at as a person, as an individual, as a teacher, and as a father. The list of people I’d like to thank would not fit on this page. Basically, they know who they are. I can tell all the help and support I’ve had came from those people’s hearts. The message I want to leave is very simple, always follow your heart and your feet will take you to that same direction. Believe in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu 50% and the other 50% is to believe in your own self. Put that together with mother nature and just trust. Remember, a black belt is a white belt that never ever gave up. I also would like to extend an open invitation to everyone from every school to come and experience how we live and train in paradise. I’m sure that they would find it to be a very unique experience.

KC: One last thing Luis, apologies for this but I promised to ask you. My kids wanted to know why ‘Limao’ (lemon) and who gave you that name?

LH: They needed a super hero figure in Brazil, so my friends created the Lemon Head character. As opposed to what people might think I’m not that sour. I’m actually very sweet.

KC: Thanks for your time Luis!

Possible links:
Maui Jiu Jitsu, Hawaii
Rickson Gracie Website