Photograph by kind permission of Lauren Elle photography

By David Webb, 19th December 2009
Interview:

KombatClinic.com: Hi Emily, thank you so much for taking some time out for our interview on KombatClinic.com it means so much having world and Olympic champions taking time to give us their thoughts on Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Judo and offering advice to those that read each issue. Could you start by giving us a little background to you martial arts, where you started and the path you took getting to your current status as a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu World Champion? As I understand you are quite and accomplished traveller.

Emily Kwok: I was born in Japan, but raised in Canada. As a young child I wasn’t very athletic, though I enjoyed sports. In high school I found that I was not very good at playing your normal team sports such as basketball and volleyball. When I was 16 I had decided to try Jeet Kune Do, but was only able to practise for a couple months before my parents forced me to quit. They found my new hobby rather ‘unladylike’. 

I found BJJ by accident, and becoming a World Champion was definitely not on my radar! I had been inspired to box as I’d seen a few different boxing themed movies and ran into an old friend of mine who was a personal trainer and quite knowledgeable in the martial arts. After trying boxing for a few weeks and finding myself uncoordinated and aloof, he’d suggested I try ground wrestling. When I asked him what that was, he explained it was Sambo, BJJ etc. and suggested I try it. I tried it for the first time in 2001, was intrigued, competed 6 months later for the first time, and never looked back.  He spoke to me after I won my first tournament and told me I’d be a World Champion one day and I laughed in disbelief.  He’s currently still my personal trainer and best friend. He saw something in me that I never would have seen in myself. His name is Roy Duquette and I owe him much of my success.

KC: For those that aren’t aware of Emily Kwok could you tell us where you are based at a present and some the names you are currently training with, learning from or teaching yourself?

EK: I am currently based in North Jersey at a facility called Martial Maxx MMA. I work alongside Jamal Paterson and Alan Teo, 2 Renzo Gracie Black Belts. I’ve known them since I was a white belt and am teaching in this facility. I have to say it’s very difficult to find the time to train for yourself when you are working in the field since most of your time is spent developing others. I don’t get much time to train myself, but when I do, I usually work on techniques with my husband (a brown belt), and close friends.  I also have the opportunity to work with Val Worthington and Felicia Oh (who I run women’s grappling camp with), so I’m quite blessed to have some of the best females around to bounce things off of as well.

KC: What is you capacity as a black belt in terms of sessions and teaching outside of the women’s grappling camps?

EK: I teach a variety of different types of classes at the facility I work at, children’s martial arts (ages 4-6), co-ed BJJ classes and an all women’s class.  I have also instructed solo seminars without my counterparts, Val and Felicia. I do hope that as a female black belt I can show that what I/we have to offer is just as legitimate and impactful as any other male black belt.  It’s difficult to get women to stay in the sport, but I don’t believe that it’s because we aren’t meant to practice BJJ. I think that we have yet to see it properly taught and marketed successfully to women, but I feel that there is strong growth potential. Also, it’s a huge compliment when a student of any gender and size find your techniques useful and relevant.  I hope to more women teaching classes, as it will set a positive example for every kind of practitioner.

(Photograph by kind permission of Alicia Anthony © Aliciaphotos.com)

KC: I often ask people I interview on KombatClinic.com who they aspired to be when they first started training BJJ. As the majority of interviewees tend to be male athletes most of the answers tend to be male BJJ champions. Obviously, if you looked up to peers and instructors that happened to be male that is cool. I understand that when you first started out female BJJ athletes were few and far between, but I was wondering whether you did look towards females BJJ athletes and desired their ability or indeed had specific female competitor that you admired when you started?

EK: That’s a really interesting question. To be honest, I didn’t really understand what I was getting involved in when I started BJJ. I didn’t see the black belt because the reality of the sport for me was that I was surrounded by white belts and my first instructor was a blue belt. The first person I ever looked up to was a female white belt in my first BJJ class that I happened to watch training, and she was able to pass her partner’s guard.  I aspired to be able to do everything she did, and set myself to task. When I was able to travel to NY and trained at Renzo’s for 5-6 months shortly thereafter, I looked up to his only 2 female students at the time. One was a blue belt and the other was a purple belt. I suppose there was an air of mysticism around them at the time since it was rare to see a male coloured belt let alone a female.  They were very involved in their own practice and were not very interested in helping beginners out. Nonetheless, I found myself looking up to people that were a little closer to home, I didn’t really even open myself up to the world of the serious athletes till much later on in my career.

KC: Has this admiration changed at all now you are a champion yourself? By that I mean do you still look at some of the women in your sport who have been at the top for some time and admire their longevity in what essentially is a relatively new sport?

EK: It’s humbling to even have my name mentioned next to women like Hannette Stack, Luca Diaz, Penny Thomas; Leticia Ribeiro, the list goes on.  It’s humbling because I know that many of them have trained longer, competed more, struggled with greater challenges, and I can’t fathom how they’ve felt when they’ve had their worst days. I think being a higher ranked female in the sport is very difficult because BJJ is a relatively new sport for everyone, and then it’s an even smaller group of people you speak to being a woman. There are many moments where it can be very lonely and scary because as you get higher and higher, there are less and less support systems in place. They are the ones carving the unprecedented territory for everyone else. There can be a lot of resistance and/or ridicule. I admire every one of them for not giving up and helping new women feel and see that there is a place for them.  I think I appreciate them more and more as time goes on.

KC: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, in terms of its make up and structure is definitely one of a kind. It is still evolving and has become so organic with new positions, submissions, and movements springing up all of the time. If you couple this with the fact that it is becoming more and more popular with women (through such camps as your own) are there any athletes you have come across maybe at an event who found some position or performed a submission or sweep or indeed who may have a type of game that you would like to utilise, emulate and mould as your own?

EK: I’m always impressed and admire what I see out on the floor, and I definitely find myself trying new things all the time.

I think I could give a hundred names of athletes who have helped evolve the game; any high level practitioner brings something new to the table. I see BJJ as being a very expressive and creative martial art, and I believe that every athlete has the ability to learn, study and share his or her perspective. I admire many techniques that are performed in tournaments, seminars and DVD’s, but I ultimately think that it’s up to all of us to help evolve the sport. What I mean by that is that I appreciate learning signature moves from everyone, though it may be difficult for us to personally incorporate all aspects of those techniques ourselves. Perhaps it’s stylistically very different from what our bodies can do, but we try, we adjust, we adapt… and change the movements to suit our game.

KC: Are there any sportsmen or women that you look to for inspiration outside of the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu community?

EK: I don’t follow too many other sports, but I can say that I am very inspired by any athlete that gives their all for their sport. It’s not easy to train hard and compete well; so many physical and mental challenges make following your passion a difficult path to choose.

(Photograph by kind permission of Guilherme Rafols)

KC: I heard an old interview with you the other day, which touched upon gender based cultural nuances within countries and the often negative perceptions and attitudes that you encountered as a younger Samboist and Jiu Jitsoka in Canada, the US and ultimately over in Japan.

I was wondering whether, as a black belt, you have noticed a change in attitude towards you personally since being awarded your black belt? And whether you being a Black Belt in BJJ would have removed the negative attitudes you encountered back in the day?

EK: For sure, I feel as though my peers appreciate how long and hard the path to the black belt can be. Anyone that has known me over the years knows that I’ve had to overcome many challenges to get here. At the same time I feel like I just joined a new club and that I’m back at the beginning again. Like now that I’m a black belt, the real work begins!

I don’t know that being a black belt in my past would have really changed anything. Anytime you are a minority in the way you look or the way you think, it’s not easy to be taken seriously or to even be respected. I think I would experience the same negativity today because my presence was never ‘the norm’.

KC: Do you feel that as an ADCC veteran and Mundials champion male Jiu Jitsoka’s treat you any differently?

EK: Some yes, some no.  At the end of the day, I think it is a matter of the quality of individual you are dealing with. There are some men in the sport who have been extremely supportive of what I do and that I want to help grow the sport.  They will go out of their way to help me feel that there is a place for me no matter where I go and what I do. 

And yet some men still believe that this is a man’s sport and a man’s world.  And those types of men could care less about the fact that I managed to achieve anything at all, because they feel that there really is no room for women to be taken seriously.  At most, they will say that you are good at what you do ‘for a girl’. They believe that your Jiu Jitsu is not the same as a man’s Jiu Jitsu, they feel that your technique and understanding of the sport is inferior…

KC: Off the back of the last question and with the likes of yourself, Hannette Staak, Penny Thomas, Val Worthington, Felecia Oh and Kyra Gracie competing so much and on numerous occasions defeating male counterparts in competition how much do you think attitudes towards women in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in general have changed since you started?

EK: Not that much, little if at all. I think we struggle greatly to be appreciated on the same level as our male counterparts. Women have been doing a phenomenal job representing the sport, providing some of the most exciting matches at elite level tournaments. But we still don’t get much press coverage; we are never talked about as much as the men, and I feel that we still have a long way to go. I think we are still sometimes seen as a novelty, and not seen as serious athletes.

KC: Tell us a little about the instructors you have trained under and who have graded you whilst on the journey that is Jiu Jitsu. Who has had the most profound effect on your game?

EK: I’ve spent significant amounts of time training under Denis Kang, Renzo Gracie, Takashi Ohuchi and Ricardo Almeida. Each taught me something that has added to my overall understanding of the game. I can’t say that any one was more profound than the others.

Denis Kang had a fierce spirit and heart, very legitimate ground skills and a very genuine person. I was one of his first 3 students. I trained every day that I could while I was under his tutelage. He helped me learn to trust and give my all in training when I had an instructor that supported me.

Renzo Gracie awarded me my blue belt, and I learned much of my foundation while at his academy in NY. What I learned most importantly from Renzo was not just in technique, but also in having passion and sharing your spirit with others. Renzo always made everyone feel welcome in his school and always had such a positive energy around him. He truly made me want to train and be the best that I could be because he always gave you the very best that he had.

Takashi Ohuchi was a very unique instructor; he awarded me my purple belt and was a very dynamic and experimental instructor. He had a deep appreciation for the evolution of the sport and taught me just about everything he could while I was living in Japan. I honestly don’t know how much I learned since he taught so much! Lol, but he was always very excited to teach me. He gave up a position as a university professor in bioengineering to teach BJJ.  He sacrificed a lot for the sport.

Ricardo Almeida awarded me my brown and black belt. He was a very disciplined and routine instructor. He gave me an appreciation for structure and I learned in his school that all types of people, not just naturally talented athletes should be able to have access to BJJ.

I consider myself very fortunate to have had so many hands in my experience of BJJ. I feel that I’ve been able to learn BJJ through so many different eyes and I wouldn’t change any part of my journey. I believe the future of the sport is in knowledge and pushing our boundaries. What better way to learn more than to be exposed to different styles and culture so that you can evolve your game?

KC: Obviously each has their own way of doing things and as black belts in BJJ and champions in their own right probably has aspects to their game that nobody else does, learning and grading under the likes of Ricardo Almeida, Yuki Nakai and Renzo Gracie must mean you have quite an ecclectic awareness of Jiu Jitsu. Would you agree?

EK: I would definitely agree. I don’t think my game is anywhere near as sophisticated as any of my intructors, but I would one day hope to exempliify the best of their teachings.

KC: Looking at your resume I noticed that you were promoted to purple under Takashi Ohuchi  and Yuki Nakai. Was this with Paraestra BJJ or, as Yuki Nakai is a black belt under Carlos Gracie Jr. (or the IBJJF), was this with a Gracie Barra affiliate?

EK: The promotion was with Paraestra BJJ under Yuki Nakai.

(Photograph by kind permission of Alicia Anthony © Aliciaphotos.com)

KC: Yuki Nakai seems a pretty cool guy, a modern day samurai if you like, I remember watching him compete against Rickson on the Vale Tudo Japan 1995 ‘Choke’ DVD years ago and his indominable spirit was so evident even though he was greatly outweighed by all he faced. Have you found that apart from the technical differences of BJJ within Japan in terms of the physiological makeup of players is there a different mentality to training? What I mean is, do the rather more strict and regimented aspects that the other Japanese arts offer transfer over onto the mat during practice and does this create a different training environment to say Hawaii or Brazil?

EK: My expereince training at Paraestra was that they didn’t necessarliy have a very strict or regimented attitude towards training. The Japanese really enjoy emulating and adopting behaviors that are foreign to them. I believe they find BJJ and Brazilians particularly intriguing, and for the few of them that have travelled and trained in Brazil, they try very hard to practice and integrate the drilling and class structure that they learned there. Tournaments are usually advertised in Japanese and Portugese! Forget english! That being said though, the Japanese love to train and are very accomodating. Anytime and any day they will make time to train. My instructor created a class at 10:30 pm at night so that myself and a few other english teachers could find the time to train.

KC: We have already established that BJJ has taken you far and wide and indeed living and working all over the world has meant experiencing BJJ in some quite diverse cultures. Have you ever made the trip to Brazil? And if so, what, if anything stood out as marking Brazil being different from elsewhere?

EK: I have not been to Brazil. I had planned to go for the 2007 Mundials, but of course that was they year it came to North America and I had no need to go! I know that many people say that there is no need to go to Brazil anymore because most of the athletes and large academies have representation here, but I would still like to make the trip one day in the future to pay homage to the country where this sport evolved from.

KC: Looking at the record of your titles and competitions that you have competed in (BJJ, MMA and No-Gi) you obviously enjoy competing. Do you think that competition is an essential part of BJJ in terms of progression through the ranks and in developing self-awareness and a complete and thorough understanding of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu or do you think that with the right instructor(s) you don’t necessarily have to compete in order to achieve your full potential?

EK: I can say that competition helped bring about an amazing sense of self-awareness for me that did not exist before. Competing has been a very good tool for me, it has forced me to challenge myself and identify my weakness both in sport and in life.  I think it also helped me improve my game faster since my competitors identified the holes in my game much quicker! That being said, I don’t believe that competition is for everyone, and I would never force any of my students to compete. A student’s experience in BJJ should be what they can handle and are prepared to deal with. I’ve seen students compete for the wrong reasons and they quit BJJ shortly after they lose. I do think that everyone has the ability to bring out the best in themselves by practising the sport under the right instructor.

KC: Emily, I’d like to thank you for your time in giving us this interview before we wrap up are there any individuals you would like to acknowledge that you have worked with over the years and have you any message for any aspiring junior female Jiu Jitsoka that may be reading this interview?

EK: Don’t give up and you are not alone. The past year has been very profound for me. It’s the first time in my career that I’ve not felt alone. Took me 9 years to feel it and see it, and now I hope to help other women identify with each other much faster! You are an inspiration to others around you and you never know who else will find strength in what you do.

In addition, I’d like to personally thank Roy Duquette for starting me on this path in life; Art Keintz and my husband Gerry Hurtado for supporting me; and Felicia, Val and Alaina for a wonderful friendship and a shared vision.

KC: Take care, Emily!

Possible links:
www.aliciaphotos.com
www.martialmaxxmma.com
www.womensgrappling.org
www.emilykwok.com